PDA

View Full Version : Perfect Speaker? Let's hear your vote!



Storm
08-17-2006, 10:00 PM
Thought it would be fun to start a thread discussing the possibility of the perfect speaker.

It seems we ramble back and forth - often getting mad at someone else because their speaker is not as good as yours.

Please no graphs - they are boring and stupid. The only real graph is the human ear.

So, let's start this thread and see if we can come up with that one perfect speaker that can achieve everything.

What I mean is every speaker seems to have it's problems, but there has to be that one speaker that can do it all without modifications.

--------------------------------

:blink:

Titanium Dome
08-17-2006, 10:23 PM
The best speaker I've ever heard by far is the Revel Ultima Salon coupled with the Ultima Sub 30. However, right there, I've violated your premise since it's not one pair of speakers that can do it all, but a pair of speakers and a sub.

The combo is my perfect speaker for domestic listening: delicate, tender and sweet by turns and deafeningly clear, massively powerful, and chest crushingly thunderous when required. Musical. Effortless. Natural. Immediate. Present. Deep, wide, and defined. Quick! I need a paper towel. :smsex:

If these had the JBL logo on them like they should, there'd be no doubt about who made the best speakers.

If the same care of engineering, innovative design, and quality of drivers and networks goes into the JBL 60th Anniversary Speaker, then it will no doubt replace the Revel at the top of my most desired list.

Ken Pachkowsky
08-19-2006, 08:18 PM
Thought it would be fun to start a thread discussing the possibility of the perfect speaker.

Please no graphs - they are boring and stupid. The only real graph is the human ear.

But there has to be that one speaker that can do it all without modifications.

--------------------------------

:blink:

Where, What, How Much, I'll take two....

Seriously, I have no idea......but have done my share of searching....and spending.

The only real graph is the human ear.......now I like that!

Ken

Ian Mackenzie
08-19-2006, 09:08 PM
In a few more weeks we may see not a perfect loudspeaker but a major leap forward for us folk.

But outside the square the Duntechs as always been top of the heap. The are used for mastering by a number of leading record labels.

MJC
09-02-2006, 07:08 AM
There will never be a perfect speaker, but some come much closer than others, that's for sure. Some people(snobs) think that ribbon speakers are the best, I wouldn't take them for free.
I'm not sure what the best speakers are I've ever heard, never heard them all at the same time and place. But I'd like to be able to hear, altogether, Revel Ultima Salons, K2, 250Ti, PS, VA Beethoveens.

Rolf
09-02-2006, 11:25 AM
Some people(snobs) think that ribbon speakers are the best, I wouldn't take them for free.


Shame on you:( . I know ribbon (tweeters) and they are good. The ones that like them are no snobs, just another opinion. I prefer the 077 over most of them. But that's me.

MJC
09-02-2006, 11:52 AM
Shame on you:( . I know ribbon (tweeters) and they are good. The ones that like them are no snobs, just another opinion. I prefer the 077 over most of them. But that's me.
I can't speak for people in Norway, I've never been there. But here in the USA, most people I've known who liked ribbon speakers I would classify as snobs.
I don't think ribbons are bad(read Bose), but I don't think they can even come close to JBL Ti.

rgrjit8
09-05-2006, 05:12 AM
But outside the square the Duntechs as always been top of the heap. The are used for mastering by a number of leading record labels.

Yes, these are my wet dream speakers too.
When I bought my XPL-200s there were a pair of Black Knights(?) in the showroom They made the XPLs sound like tin cans on strings.
Okay guys, don't kill me too dead for saying this.

Still bought the JBLs though, primarily because of price but also because I would have had to hire help to move the Duntechs and had no permanent digs at the time.

hapy._.face
09-05-2006, 08:16 AM
I'm kind of new to this hobby so there are many great speakers I've yet to experience (including a lot of JBL's) but I was lucky enough to pick up a pair of cosmetically challenged Vandersteen Model 5's recently and I've really enjoyed them thus far. They have a lot of strengths that, if important to you, really deliver. I donít have a versed audio vocabulary but I know what I like when I hear it. For example, if you play guitar and know the feeling you get when you rest your chin on a dreadnought while playing sweetly- these speakers can replicate that perfectly. Imaging and overall presence is fantastic, too. Vocals- especially female are chilling. I'd have to say that these model 5's are my first "real" speakers so I'm just riding on that high for a while until the inevitable upgrade bug hits again. In fact- I just heard a pair of Model 5A's (upgraded versions of the 5) and they were definitely better than my speakers in most respects. Oh well.

This may be elementary to some but it took me a while to learn that you have to make a choice in what you want your speakers to do and that means compromise or sacrifice. Like you guys said- no speaker can do it all. Deciding what you really want can be sobering. I always thought I preferred an analytical type speaker with speed, slam, and depth but just the opposite has proven true. I find myself indulged for longer periods of time with speakers that look "bad" on paper and have overly large soundstages- not exactly reference by definition but very pleasing to my ears. For me, a speaker has to be musical if nothing else. I'm sick of constantly analyzing the speakers and relish those moments when you can just close your eyes, forget about the tech stuff and get lulled by the content.

Since we are at different "levels" in this hobby- I'd say the 'best speakers' are the ones you can actually enjoy for the moment. For some of the more advanced enthusiasts- it may take a pair of Duntechs to sweep you off your feet and give you a high. For others- a pair of L100's may provide temporary bliss. Neither is right or wrong.

My wife casually compared my 'audio addiction' to a drug the other day. She meant it as a joke but I was quick to point out a fundamental difference: Drugs start with a bang and never deliver beyond that first impression. However, the more a person learns and moves up in ranks in the audio hobby- the more potential he/she has for enjoyment. Great gear can deliver a higher emotional experience and better gear delivers even more. This hobby has been a slow but continual upgrading process (for me) and it just keeps getting better.

Ken Pachkowsky
09-05-2006, 08:29 AM
I don’t have a versed audio vocabulary but I know what I like when I hear it. For example, if you play guitar and know the feeling you get when you rest your chin on a dreadnought while playing sweetly- these speakers can replicate that perfectly.

I'm sick of constantly analyzing the speakers and relish those moments when you can just close your eyes, forget about the tech stuff and get lulled by the content.

Since we are at different "levels" in this hobby- I'd say the 'best speakers' are the ones you can actually enjoy for the moment. For some of the more advanced enthusiasts- it may take a pair of Duntechs to sweep you off your feet and give you a high. For others- a pair of L100's may provide temporary bliss. Neither is right or wrong.

My wife casually compared my 'audio addiction' to a drug the other day. She meant it as a joke but I was quick to point out a fundamental difference: Drugs start with a bang and never deliver beyond that first impression. However, the more a person learns and moves up in ranks in the audio hobby- the more potential he/she has for enjoyment. Great gear can deliver a higher emotional experience and better gear delivers even more. This hobby has been a slow but continual upgrading process (for me) and it just keeps getting better.


Frankly, for a self described "rookie" you nailed the good and the bad of this obsession. If I may say your further along than you think. This is a great post that speaks volumes.

It has me thinking.......maybe its time to stop obsessing and spend more time enjoying.:applaud:

Ken

hapy._.face
09-05-2006, 08:47 AM
Frankly, for a self described "rookie" you nailed the good and the bad of this obsession. If I may say your further along than you think. This is a great post that speaks volumes.

It has me thinking.......maybe its time to stop obsessing and spend more time enjoying.:applaud:

Ken

Thank you, but frankly, I think you just nailed it and it has me thinking, too. You don't need an upgrade (invite?) to turn on the switches; You need a willingness.

My system may not be where I want it to be but it's a quantum leap from what I started with. If I went back to that moment in time and could see the rig I have now- the old me would be sitting back in the chair with a HUGE grin!! I often have to remind myself of where I came from so I can appreciate where I am and where I'm going.

SEAWOLF97
09-09-2006, 10:10 AM
OHM F.

(guess I havnt heard many super high ends).....

morbo!
09-10-2006, 04:10 AM
I would have to make a vote for the dali`s
If u ever had the pleasure to experiance a high end set of these baby`s
wow is all i can say
but really the only high end set i ever lived with
http://www.dali.dk/int/

we have one of the 1st sets of 350wrms spreakers they made
extrodinary speakers
sound great on any amp

Titanium Dome
09-10-2006, 09:37 AM
(snip)
http://www.dali.dk/int/

(snip)


I've never visited their site before. That's a crapload of speaker lines!

DALI has everything from the gorgeous to the grotesque, not unlike the span of offerings from JBL consumer (without the expansive Pro, autosound, and marine offerings). It's certainly a different design philosophy in action.

The MegaLine is a bit bizarre in its execution, but the white paper is fascinating. I'd love to hear it. Lots of California dealers; I'll need to see if anyone actually has that line.

TD thanks morbo!

morbo!
09-10-2006, 07:00 PM
Awsome
I would love to hear one of you guys comments about them.

I just have to put my vote on the dali`s because they do sound great on anything. totally engrosing no matter what the source or power of the amp

Then again i havent heard the systems you guys own so i might be strangly on the wrong track.

the bass can be shocking and no need for a sub or playing around
they just sound great

Tim Rinkerman
09-11-2006, 05:06 PM
Meyer HD-1's.

fisken
09-12-2006, 10:18 PM
I would have to make a vote for the dali`s
If u ever had the pleasure to experiance a high end set of these baby`s
wow is all i can say
but really the only high end set i ever lived with
http://www.dali.dk/int/

we have one of the 1st sets of 350wrms spreakers they made
extrodinary speakers
sound great on any amp

i have heard this speakers in diferent places. privat and in some hi-fi shows. extrem good sound, but another sound filosophy.
heaven for some, a interesting speaker for other. and, i must say,
use a wery good(and strong amp) the only way to let them sound grate.

new on this forum, it looks very nice

LowPhreak
09-22-2006, 07:30 PM
"Perfect" speaker? Something with the mids and soundstage of a 'Logan or Quad e-stat, the highs of an EMIT, the lows of a REL Stentor or Studio...and the dispersion, projection, and dynamics of a 5x3 18"x3 JBL stack at a Santana show!

Not in this lifetime...

soundboy
09-22-2006, 09:17 PM
I have always been torn between the ultimate factory speaker and something custom designed...like a lot of you on here. . The custom design has won more often over the years, because it is more realistically obtained (I don't have endless pocket change), and with the advent of LEAP and other programs, a person can get killer results and put money in to the best components including the crossovers. Especially if you are talented enough as a builder...So my idea of the perfect "rock and roll and beyond" system? JBL 18" 2245H, to 80 hz, a pair of JBL 12" 2203H to 300 hz, a pair of 8" JBL 2108H to 1600hz above and below a JBL 2342 Biradial horn with TAD 2001 driver(sorry 'bout that)...biamp between the 18 and the 12's, and a LEAP designed filter network with mundorf silver/gold caps for the rest....in 2" thick mdf/oak veneer....and, oh yeah, smoked glass tops:bouncy::bouncy::bouncy::bouncy:

JBLRaiser
09-23-2006, 08:56 PM
Is good enough for me an acceptable excuse?:moon:

Ken Pachkowsky
09-23-2006, 09:01 PM
OHM F.

(guess I havnt heard many super high ends).....

There's a ghost from the past.....I have not seen a pair of those in many years.

Ken

Nightbrace
09-23-2006, 09:07 PM
Are we only considering Altec Lansing Products?

If so, JBL, L300, Altec, Model 19.
Best vintage speaker EV 15TRX in a custom enclosure, 4.0 cu. ft.
Best speaker overall, 12" Plus PAudio Coaxial driver in a custom 2.8 Cu. Ft. enclosure.
Best bookshelf speaker, Altec Bolero 890C.
Best "small" speaker, Dynaco A-25.
Best studio monitor, 4333.

My opinion doesn't seem to matter too much around here, but thats what I think from what I've personally owned and listened to so far.

Akira
10-04-2006, 12:25 PM
This is an easy one...Ken Pachkowsky's are!

Still envious.......

LowPhreak
10-04-2006, 05:38 PM
I once heard a set of Infinity Reference Standard's at a shop in Nashville in the late '70s. Not for long tho' - the bastards threw me out b/c I was a young guy without any money! :biting:

Had a few decent listening sessions with a pair of B&W 800's in the '80s in Colonie, NY. They didn't throw me out, b/c they were hoping I'd but a set. LOL! Too bad I didn't have the spare $15k laying around or I might have. Sound was spectacular - but the front-end was very high buck as well. I remember that particular pair had the most perfect and beautiful walnut veneer finish I've ever seen on anything, even to this day, and at over 6' tall and 1.5'-2' deep there was a lot of walnut that I got to stare at. Maybe it was really...alienwood?? :blink:

I would really like to go a few rounds with the Pass Labs Rushmore, to hear what Nelson & Co. has cooked up for a reference speaker. Not extremely high-powered, but the system is supposed to be pretty efficient so I'd imagine getting a full-range 96-102 dB or so in a good-sized, well-adjusted room wouldn't be too difficult.

"Perfect speaker"...well, here's what Dick Burwen thinks is the perfect speaker for him: http://www.burwenaudio.com/Sound_System.html

lastcobra
10-04-2006, 08:02 PM
The best speaker I've heard so far is the Infinity Intermezzo 4.1t It has a wonderful warm almost laid back sound. The enclosure is actually made out of aluminum more of a modern design, and it has a built in 12" sub with it's own 850 watt rms amp. It is a 4 way a tower with a 1" tweeter, 3.5" midrange. and a 6'' midbass. It is a spin off of their prelude series. If you haven't guessed by now yes I own a pair and am kinda partial towards them. The rest of the tower is being powered with an Adcom GFA7805 300watts x 5.

lastcobra
10-04-2006, 08:33 PM
19278 Not my personel house just a idea of what the speakers are.

Ken Pachkowsky
10-04-2006, 10:30 PM
They do sound great and are the best all around speakers I have ever heard, or owned.

A bear to setup, they will sound much better when soffit mounted in a 460+ square foot room with bass traps and other acoustic treatments. Hopefully very soon:applaud:

I did hear a large custom Tannoy system at a studio in Indianapolis that was memorable. I wish I knew the exact configuration but remember there were Revel Subs involved and multiple Tannoy drivers in a large array per side. The crossover was active and custom built. They used a huge pair of mega watt mono Perreaux amps for the subs and Audio Research amps for the Tannoys.

Ken

Mr. Widget
10-05-2006, 12:19 AM
Pissst... hey Ken.

That would be Audio Research amps. There is a line of electronics with the Acoustic Research name on it, but it is pretty low end gear.

A friend of mine is quite the Audio Research nut... he recently upgraded to these gigantic mono blocks. Completely obscene!


Widget

Ken Pachkowsky
10-05-2006, 07:54 AM
Pissst... hey Ken.

That would be Audio Research amps. A friend of mine is quite the Audio Research nut... he recently upgraded to these gigantic mono blocks. Completely obscene!


Widget

Dah!:banghead:

It was late!:)

Ken

LowPhreak
10-05-2006, 11:03 AM
A friend of mine is quite the Audio Research nut... he recently upgraded to these gigantic mono blocks. Completely obscene!

Yeah, their price IS obscene. What was the Ref 600's MSRP ...$30k? :rolleyes: Well, that's the 610T, so $39,990. I guess. Very expensive tone controls.

Tell your friend if he wants ARC tubes to try the Classic 120 or 150 monoblocks. He'll save a bundle and still have some very good sounding tone controls. Kinda wish I still had my old 120's. :(

http://www.arcdb.ws/CL120/ARC_CL120_front2.jpg

Mr. Widget
10-05-2006, 12:04 PM
Tell your friend if he wants ARC tubes to try the...
He has plenty of vintage as well as the newer ARC gear... I expect he has tried pretty much everything they have built.

I wouldn't mind it if some of his cast offs could find there way over here.:D

Anyway back to Killer speakers... he just found out about the DD66000 and was going to contact JBL when he thought they were $30K a pair... at $30K each he decided he should audition them first. I am glad that he still has some degree of sanity.:blink:


Widget

LowPhreak
10-05-2006, 12:20 PM
... at $30K each he decided he should audition them first.

Yeah...d'ya think?!!

Akira
10-06-2006, 05:19 AM
A bear to setup, they will sound much better when soffit mounted in a 460+ square foot room with bass traps and other acoustic treatments. Hopefully very soon:applaud:
Ken

Here is one important point so many people miss. Westlake and JBL studio monitors are professional instruments that were specificly designed to be soffit mounted. High end audiophile speakers were designed to integrate into a house. You will never get peak performance running your pro large format monitors as part of the furniture....they will still sound good, but mount and treat the room and the walls and anomollies disappear. The sound is effortless and everywhere.
A firm believer in soffit mounting.

Ken, do let us know after soffit mounting if you feel it has made a world of difference, as I feel it does...or any difference at all, big or small.

JBL 4645
11-28-2006, 03:15 AM
http://www.hibino.co.jp/PLDBimages/jbl_4675c-8lf.jpg

Best JBL loudspeaker Iíve ever heard and felt is the JBL 4675-A THX approved this is a power house performer with the movie sound authority to give Apollo 13 a dynamic lift-off on reel 3.:applaud:

Thom
11-28-2006, 12:16 PM
I think you would have to start out by defining perfect. Do you mean a yet to exist speaker that is perfect and what that would be to me? Do you mean what I think is the best sounding speaker that I have ever heard. Or, do you mean, the speaker,that if I could only have one speaker, I would choose to be that speaker. They are such different things. I guess the yet to exist perfect speaker might fill both other rolls , but then it doesn't exist, does it.

The perfect speaker would be able to put you at a rock concert, at the level the music is played there, and if it's a group like the Dead who use JBL and Mac have the distortion level so lo that only your neighbors know you are in violation of local noise codes. And, the same speakers should play the softest of acoustic music and make you believe, if the mix is right, that the instruments are there. Now if you have a pair of speakers like that and they are only good to listen to when you have time to seriously listen, and when you just put them on in the background they sound like shit, or take over and you can't do other things with them on they still might not be your perfect speaker.
Add to that, that when it comes to consumer speakers at least, if a company had the ability to build the perfect speaker, but with a whole lot less effort they could build a speaker better than anybody else that wasn't nearly as good as the "perfect speaker" that is the speaker they would build because they already know thay can build one a little bit better next year.
I might be off track, but I doubt that it's any commercial builders goal to build the perfect speaker, only the most profitable speaker, and if they see the way to do that is to chase perfection then they will, but I believe they have engineers who work on what makes us buy and on exactly how good it has to be to be the most profitable. (when will another doller spent not return as much profit as the last dollar spent. Do you think JBL started using lighter drivers in their consumer line because they knew some of their customers would have to take their speakers upstairs?
I think we have reached a kind of a ballancing point, where there is lots of new technology that shure would have been handy in the 40's, but there is also a new mind set where JBL (I just used them there are thousands of others) is not a company devoted to making the best speakers. Harmon is a corporation devoted to making money and JBL is one of their profit centers and they make their money through speakers. So yesterdays speakers were made with much more care and a desire to make ones name mean something, but the tools were limited compared to today. Today tools abound, no one's very worried about the name, their getting as many miles out of it as they can as long as it lasts.
Picking a favorite speaker is almost like picking a favorite football team.

timc
11-29-2006, 01:23 AM
The best speaker ive heard is the JBL K2 S9800.

Ive also heard all the Dali's, except the megaline and imo the dont meassure up to others in their price range. Boomy bass and a general lack of clarity in the midrange. Ironically the MS5 is the worst value for money in their lineup. Best value i think is the Helicon 800.

The megaline are in a different league according to thoose who have heard it.

Best regards.

Gary L
11-29-2006, 05:39 AM
Never gonna happen!

Imagine a pair of eyeglasses that are perfect for everyones eyes, no matter who puts them on. Mine work great for me but most others who try them can't stand them.

I have heard $100 speakers that sound great to me and $1000 ones I would not pay $50 for.

On the higher end I have heard some rediculously expensive speakers that sound great yet I would not spend this much for the slight improvments over much more reasonably priced offerings.

To each his own seems to fit here.

Gary

timc
11-29-2006, 12:04 PM
Very True Gary: However the thread heading invites to some subjective opinions.

I think it is a nice way to learn what preferences people on the forum have, and it makes it easier to give good advice later on.

Tim

Storm
11-29-2006, 07:59 PM
Yes, that is why I started this thread. I wanted to understand more in depth personal opinions and observations that other forum member have about speakers.

Thanks for the great posts on this thread, I have learned alot!

:)

-Storm

MJC
11-30-2006, 05:18 PM
The best speaker I've heard so far is the Infinity Intermezzo 4.1t.
Its all subjective, but you surely have never heard the Infinity Prelude MTS, much better than the intermezzo.
As for the best speaker I've ever heard, I'm not sure, but the Preludes, the 250Ti, and VA Beethoveens would be near the top. Unfortunately, the times and places I heard those three systems where years and miles apart.

Mr. Widget
11-30-2006, 08:38 PM
No really! :duck:

I had built a pair of mini-monitors using the 4.5" Auratone as a woofer and added a tiny Peerless aluminum dustcapped 2.1" paper cone tweeter... don't remember the sub, but I had assembled this college dorm friendly system for my girlfriend (years before the mass marketing of minis and subs... should've patented that one!) ...anyway one summer we moved in together, sure the sex was great and all, but the relevance to our discussion was that we had two stereos in the same room... a Kenwood integrated powering my little mini stereo creation and my massive Marantz 510 powered JBL L300 DIYs... the Auratone system sounded way better! Sure the dynamics were compressed and the SPLs had to be kept down low... but there was a natural quality to voices and strings that the big JBLs lacked.


Widget

Mr. Widget
11-30-2006, 09:12 PM
Ok, so maybe the little Auratone system wasn't for every head bangin' rock'n'roller, but mentioning them got me curious... I just checked eBay...

Geez, $510 for a pair is nutz!


Widget

Zilch
12-01-2006, 12:38 AM
Hee, hee. Mr. Widget's callin' that old GF 'bout where's them Auratones right now.... :p

johnaec
12-01-2006, 07:14 AM
Back in the days of Hard Truckers we took all the birch-ply center holes left over from all the Meyer cabs we built and cut them down into squares. The we built little cabinets we called "Cubes", filled them with a 5", (?), CTX speaker, made tie-dyed grills, and sold/gave away dozens, if not hundreds. We would order the CTX speakers by the boxload of 24. I still have at least a pair or two. I'll post some pics later...

John

Hoerninger
12-03-2006, 12:48 AM
Sure the dynamics were compressed and the SPLs had to be kept down low... but there was a natural quality to voices and strings ...

Widget

For those who like it small and sweet, I would like to mention CANTON GL-260, which you can find at ebay.COM sometimes.
It has a 5 inch woofer and the volume is only 6 liters.

It sounds amazingly smooth and natural. When it is playing without comparison you wouldn't miss anything. The surrounds are remarkable longtime stable.

I have two pairs of them. One in the LR, it took a long time to convince my wife, that there could be even something better.
___________
Peter

LowPhreak
12-03-2006, 06:20 AM
I would like to mention CANTON GL-260,



The drivers look a lot like those in a/d/s'.

Ducatista47
12-03-2006, 07:30 AM
For those who like it small and sweet, I would like to mention CANTON GL-260...
It sounds amazingly smooth and natural. When it is playing without comparison you wouldn't miss anything. The surrounds are remarkable longtime stable.


Peter

I will second these remarks. I hear small and large Cantons almost every week and the smaller performers are remarkable. When nothing else is playing recently, most listeners would not know what they are missing.

Still, the Canton Vento 809 DC is my favorite non-JBL speaker I have heard. (I have not heard Revels, Wilsons, etc., so I speak from experience, and some inevitable ignorance.) I doubt that the much more expensive or well known uber-speakers have much on them. Some Canton Karats are more expensive and supposedly better speakers, and I have heard them too, but I like the 809 DC a lot better. They are very accurate but totally pleasing to listen to, not analytical or dry sounding. I like them better in cherry than silver. They are heavy to lift, too. They feel like there are a few lead bricks in there. Best of all, all large Cantons are bi-ampable. The Vento Reference 1 DC is probably even beter, but I have not heard them.
http://www.canton.de/en-home.htm
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/605canton/

For those of you who drive German automobiles or use German machines and designs in general, these speakers' designs, build quality and the reality, the truth, of their presentation of sound are very German. You know who you are and what that compliment means!

These Canton Karat pages should be of interest:
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/CantonKaratReference2page5.html
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/CantonKaratReference2page6.html

The problem is, after the 4345's I think everything else needs a sub. I expect the 4435's, 4355's, S8R's and S7R's are exceptions, but no recent listening experience there. I expect the DD66000 is better than any of them, but I can't make it to the CES so I'll probably never hear them. :(

Clark in Peoria

Hoerninger
12-03-2006, 02:55 PM
The drivers look a lot like those in a/d/s'.
Not quite shure but I think a/d/s was BRAUN, which produced well approved closed boxes. (I own a pair L810.)

The developers of BRAUN, CANTON, HECO, ACRON, HENNEL knew each other very well and they put the closed box principal to its optimum. (Some boxes were too good, the firms do not exist anymore - marketing)

Btw. BRAUN used 50 mm and 25 mm soft calottes with dividing frequencies of 550 Hz and 4000 Hz. It sounds really great as long you do not want live performance with The Who, Deep Purple or something like that.
So I'm looking for something new.
___________
Peter

Ian Mackenzie
12-03-2006, 07:34 PM
Zilchmmeister,

Sounds like a Christmas diy project..yet to be completed.

Perfect loudspeaker.(for home use)

Well in JBLs my vote is for the LSR 3 ways with a sub. They are JBLs most evolved 3 way system, they are affordable, the don't take up much space and they sound great.

http://www.jblpro.com/products/recording&broadcast/LSR6300/lsr6332.html

LowPhreak
12-04-2006, 03:07 AM
Not quite shure but I think a/d/s was BRAUN, which produced well approved closed boxes. (I own a pair L810.)

Yep, I knew about the a/d/s-Braun association, but not about Canton > a/d/s. I had a pair of L990's (10" 3-way floorstanders) and I loved the bottom end, but it was so good that I kept burning the woofers.


...and they put the closed box principal to its optimum. (Some boxes were too good, the firms do not exist anymore - marketing)

That sounds about right. Another reason why instead of shooting all the lawyers first, we should kill all the bean-counters first so the lawyers might learn a lesson. :die: :applaud:

LowPhreak
12-04-2006, 03:15 AM
Well in JBLs my vote is for the LSR 3 ways with a sub. They are JBLs most evolved 3 way system, they are affordable, the don't take up much space and they sound great.

That is exactly my view as well, Ian. Which is why eventually I'll trade off these 4412's and replace with a pair of the LSR's. They're just about the best-sounding "small" 3-way there is.

Plus, no broken grille studs to monkey with! :smthsail:

merlin
12-04-2006, 01:57 PM
From over here in the UK, these are the best loudspeakers I have heard, followed by the large Westlakes. The Everest sadly would not make the top five at the moment.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/airwise/lvoice1.jpg

Thom
12-04-2006, 02:05 PM
I don't know what this has to do with anything but it was triggered by the german thing. As one who was driving a DS21 when BMW was calling a 2002 "the ultimate driving machine" I didn't get it. I'm going to guess they don't import Citroens into Germany or else ??? I had a brother in law (guess I still do) many years ago who had these little "braun" speakers he slobered on all the time but he loved Advents also. Not knocking BMW's or the rest of them, just never seemed so special once one has encountered something that is.

For the record, although I've heard many 'ultimate" systems over the years (none of late) that I found rather underwhelming, I'v heard mention and described here too many that I was not even aware of to think that I've heard it all or that there is not a world of different speakers to hear each or at least many with their high and low points. There is one limiting factor though. The target is the same as it always has been ( if we forget that tha real target can be either to reward the shareholders or build something that can be taken public) the target is to sound like the original. As soon as you hear "that sounds better than live" either something is wrong or the target moved. Frequently some of the things attributed to the speakers or the hole system such as depth and placemelt and such would be quite important except on many recordings these things were not recorded there in the first place but who am I to say there is no Santa Clause.

Mr. Widget
12-04-2006, 02:33 PM
How about the Klipsch La Scala?
I bet I can find at least 100 people to back me up. :applaud:


Widget

Gary L
12-04-2006, 02:33 PM
By The Author in post #1


What I mean is every speaker seems to have it's problems, but there has to be that one speaker that can do it all without modifications.


I brought this back down here to point out what many have said in previous posts to this thread.

We all agree I Think, that "PERFECT" comes in many sizes, styles and colors. I also believe we all agree that what is deemed perfect by one is not perfect to all others.
I think Storm wanted to hear opinions of what many of us think are great speakers and he certainly got a bunch of excellent replies here. On the flip side, those of us who live in tight quarters have no use for L 300s, Model 19s or A7s or even the WestLakes mentioned.
There are a number of very fine speakers available that may come very close to your opinion of Perfection but I do not agree, as the author states "There has to be one that can do it all without modification".
I seriously doubt there ever will be such a speaker that we could all agree is number 1 unless we severly limit the criteria such a speaker must meet.
I love large speakers but many of the much smaller ones mentioned in this thread are fine examples of excellence any way you cut it.

Gary

LowPhreak
12-04-2006, 03:16 PM
How about the Klipsch La Scala?


Well, I used to like the Cornwall...

No one seems to be considering the room that this "perfect speaker" would inhabit. So if you're going to name what's the perfect speaker, I guess the assumption is that the room is optimal too.

Golden Ratio, anyone?

Mr. Widget
12-04-2006, 03:22 PM
While the room is as important as the equipment... we almost always ignore it because it is the most difficult to contend with.:D

That could be the next thread; "Perfect Room? Let's hear your vote! :rotfl:


Widget

louped garouv
12-04-2006, 03:42 PM
As soon as you hear "that sounds better than live" either something is wrong or the target moved.

In my case, the target moved....

much of the stuff I listen to is not "live" music,
but fully synthesized/digital music...

so about that perfect room.....

kingjames
12-04-2006, 04:22 PM
What makes it a perfect speaker? Price, white paper sheets, weight,color,horns,no horns,2 woofers,3 woofers. etc:. I can go on for ever here,What, I think is, the ear decides what is the perfect speaker and since we all hear differently there will never be a perfect speaker for everyone. . While speaker designs might appeal to everyone sound will not. So there can only be the perfect speaker individually,Never for everyone.:banghead:

Robh3606
12-04-2006, 05:48 PM
What makes it a perfect speaker?

Your opinion. Well to you at least.

Rob:)

kingjames
12-04-2006, 06:18 PM
tuche!:bouncy:

Ian Mackenzie
12-05-2006, 04:11 AM
Just to put a different spin on the topic there are many perfect/brilliant designs but how many systems are flawed during production and manufacture with cost cutting and other compromises. The same can be said of many older classics that used inferior parts despite the brilliant engineering of the day.

Unfortunately many great classics are passed up because the reputation they gained at the time was on less than satisfactory equipment.

So, You may well be sitting on a great loudspeaker.

But how much would it take to make it a perfect loudspeaker.

As an exercise I while back I built a classic, the JBL 4345 ...close to the original specifications. Temped to improve on it (with the enthusiasm of the designer) I buttered up things like new recones, improved diaphragms, an advanced active crossover and supremely expensive crossover parts..Mundorf Silver and Oil and spent a heap of time figuring out how they worked and how to set them up. Finally I was able to embelished them with the perfect amplifier ..a Passlabs X250.5

Am I insane...your damn right but I am not stupid. The reality is I am reasonably confident it blows the stock system right out of the water having heard was makes a stock system tick.

There are lots of people around here doing this apart from me. Its a bit like the book and the film the "Fastest American Indian".

Money does not buy success and nor does it buy the best sound.

Titanium Dome
12-05-2006, 10:58 PM
For me, one criterion of the perfect speaker should be that I can find it and purchase it. Maybe I can't afford it, but I could purchase it if I could get the financing, because it's actually for sale.

Rob can build a great speaker, but if he's the only guy who can have it, what good is that to me, a non-builder? Especially if he's in NY and I'm in LA? I can't "drop by" every night with a six pack and say, "Hey, Rob, let's crank it up."

Since I mentioned the Revel Ultima2 Salon as my candidate, I figured I should apply this criterion, so I went to the Revel Web site to see how easy it would be to actually find and buy. Considering it won't be in general distribution until 2007, I got this reply as to where I'll be able to buy it:


14 Dealers within 30 miles of 90731. A list of dealers followed.

OT: Let's go back to my past search for a place to purchase the JBL Performance Series, which as everyone knows eventually led me to a dealer in New York State. When I go to the JBL Web site to find a dealer, I get five dealers listed, two of whom are in greater Dallas and one in Vancouver. The other two are around LA but only one is within 30 miles. Not quite the same distribution channel.

LowPhreak
12-06-2006, 05:19 AM
For me, one criterion of the perfect speaker should be that I can find it and purchase it. Maybe I can't afford it, but I could purchase it if I could get the financing, because it's actually for sale.



Reminds me of a few months ago when I looked for a pair of the Project Array's to hear. After several calls & e-mails, I ended up having to find some jerky JBL rep on his cell phone who was constantly running around in his car ("I'm impressed!"....NOT!) :rolleyes:, played phone tag for a few days, then was told I had to go to NYC or Buffalo or Philly or Boston to hear them, (closest is NYC at 200+ miles) and then he wasn't sure if and/or when they (the 1000 or 1400) would actually be in the dealer's showroom.

Then of course there is the ridiculous pricing on this series. :banghead:

C'ya, Mr. Pompous JBL Rep dood.