D130 vs D130F and D131 vs D131F

[dpapazoni]

Can anyone tell me if D130Fs and D131Fs suffer severe high frequency loss as compared to D130s and D131s?

I seem to have lost a beautiful "chime" that I once got from 2-D131s, when I changed to 2-D131Fs(original cones) in a Fender guitar amp. Or am I imagining this?:blink:

And should I avoid D130Fs in my C36 cabs with 075s?

Thank you,
Darrell

[Harvey Gerst]

Can anyone tell me if D130Fs and D131Fs suffer severe high frequency loss as compared to D130s and D131s?

I seem to have lost a beautiful "chime" that I once got from 2-D131s, when I changed to 2-D131Fs(original cones) in a Fender guitar amp. Or am I imagining this?:blink:

And should I avoid D130Fs in my C36 cabs with 075s?

Thank you,
Darrell
No, there shouldn't be any HF loss between the D130 and the D130F, or between the D131 and the D120F. There was a VERY slight drop in efficiency, but that was about it. The D130F should work as well as a D130 in a C36 cabinet, but that's not what the D130F was designed for.

Actually, the D130 (or "F") would not be my first choice for a C36 cabinet - way too small a box for a 15" speaker. A C35 or C37 would be better.

[boputnam]

...when I changed to 2-D131Fs (original cones) in a Fender guitar amp.You are certain they are "original" ?

Do know their history?

[dpapazoni]

I am not 100% certain that the D130Fs are original. I bought them used and the original owner said they were original(never reconed). Serial#1692 and the other Serial was adjacent(it is in a cabinet).

The back of cones reads 131-404. There is a red circular JBL stamp on the non-cork baffle gaskets(it appears like it is made of a cardboard type material)

Thank you,
Darrell

[dpapazoni]

Thank you for your response,

I have never done threads before. Please forgive my awkwardness.

"No, there shouldn't be any HF loss between the D130 and the D130F, or between the D131 and the D120F. There was a VERY slight drop in efficiency, but that was about it. "

I read in the Library that D130 had a usable frequency response up to 17,000 CPS and was thinking the D131 should follow suit. The only frequency-response I could find to compare it to was a K130 which reached 6,000Hz.

I may have another variable interfering. I had a Fender amp converted to the original Fender Tweed Super amp, that I got the "chime" from with the D131s.

I do get that chime with 1-Jensen H222 Coaxial 12" running with 1-D131F. Thank goodness, I can't hear the Jensen woofer part(not efficient enough). The horn crosses at 2k and is efficient enough.

I just got a beautiful pair of JBL LE12C-1. I will be trying these tonite with my 30 watt Fender amp. They chime beautifully here in my studio. Can I damage these speakers using these in this fashion? They aren't as efficient as D131F.

Thank you for enlightening me, Harvey. It is an honor.




"The D130F should work as well as a D130 in a C36 cabinet, but that's not what the D130F was designed for. "

I just lost a bid on a pair of C34s, 030 loaded on eBay, yesterday. 1 cabinet was JBL factory and the other appeared to be made from JBL Enclosure instructions. My internet let me down in last minute bidding.

"Actually, the D130 (or "F") would not be my first choice for a C36 cabinet - way too small a box for a 15" speaker. A C35 or C37 would be better.[/quote]"

Do you feel the C35 or C37 is the best choice for the 030 system?

Thank you very much Harvey,
Darrell

[Harvey Gerst]

Thank you for your response,

I have never done threads before. Please forgive my awkwardness.


"No, there shouldn't be any HF loss between the D130 and the D130F, or between the D131 and the D120F. There was a VERY slight drop in efficiency, but that was about it. "

I read in the Library that D130 had a usable frequency response up to 17,000 CPS and was thinking the D131 should follow suit. The only frequency-response I could find to compare it to was a K130 which reached 6,000Hz.

I may have another variable interfering. I had a Fender amp converted to the original Fender Tweed Super amp, that I got the "chime" from with the D131s.

I do get that chime with 1-Jensen H222 Coaxial 12" running with 1-D131F. Thank goodness, I can't hear the Jensen woofer part(not efficient enough). The horn crosses at 2k and is efficient enough.

I just got a beautiful pair of JBL LE12C-1. I will be trying these tonite with my 30 watt Fender amp. They chime beautifully here in my studio. Can I damage these speakers using these in this fashion? They aren't as efficient as D131F.

Thank you for enlightening me, Harvey. It is an honor.


"The D130F should work as well as a D130 in a C36 cabinet, but that's not what the D130F was designed for. "

I just lost a bid on a pair of C34s, 030 loaded on eBay, yesterday. 1 cabinet was JBL factory and the other appeared to be made from JBL Enclosure instructions. My internet let me down in last minute bidding.


"Actually, the D130 (or "F") would not be my first choice for a C36 cabinet - way too small a box for a 15" speaker. A C35 or C37 would be better."

Do you feel the C35 or C37 is the best choice for the 030 system?

Thank you very much Harvey,
Darrell
Well, I don't recall the D130 going out to 17 KHz, at least not flat; it went out okay to around 6 or 7 KHz, then started breaking up and falling off beyond that. That made it a good choice for guitars. Whatever frequency response we claimed for the D130 should also pretty much apply to the D130F.

Either the 35/37 reflex boxes or the 34/40 short horns would be a good choice for an 030 system.

[dpapazoni]

Thank you for info,

I was wondering on your thoughts, also on:

"I just got a beautiful pair of JBL LE12C-1. I will be trying these tonite with my 30 watt Fender amp. They chime beautifully here in my studio. Can I damage these speakers using these in this fashion? They aren't as efficient as D131F."

May I call you "Hifi"? WOW!

Thanks,
Darrell

[Harvey Gerst]

Thank you for info,

I was wondering on your thoughts, also on:

"I just got a beautiful pair of JBL LE12C-1. I will be trying these tonite with my 30 watt Fender amp. They chime beautifully here in my studio. Can I damage these speakers using these in this fashion? They aren't as efficient as D131F."

May I call you "Hifi"? WOW!

Thanks,
Darrell
I don't know what an LE12C-1 is. If it's similar to the D123, that's my favorite guitar speaker. They should work fine with a 30 watt Fender.

[dpapazoni]

yes, it is a D123A with a LE20 tweeter. Rated at 35watts continuos. I will be running two of these in an amp using 2-5881 Tungsols(which is less than 30 watts RMS.

[speakerdave]

I read in the Library that D130 had a usable frequency response up to 17,000 CPS and was thinking the D131 should follow suit. The only frequency-response I could find to compare it to was a K130 which reached 6,000Hz.


Here is a frequency response graph from the literature for the 2130 pro driver, which is the same as the D131, as I understand.

[speakerdave]

yes, it is a D123A with a LE20 tweeter. Rated at 35watts continuos. I will be running two of these in an amp using 2-5881 Tungsols(which is less than 30 watts RMS.

The D123 and the 123A a quite different drivers, the latter having an aquaplased cone.

The LE12C is like a 123A with an LE20 coaxially mounted.

David

[dpapazoni]

Thank you so much, Harvey,

I need to get ready for my gig. It is EST time here.

An honor indeed, you were there in the "Golden Era"

Darrell

[dpapazoni]

Thank you Dave,

The page that threw me off track was here:

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/home-comp/d130-2/page1.jpg


Here is a frequency response graph from the literature for the 2130 pro driver, which is the same as the D131, as I understand.

[dpapazoni]

Yes, I installed a pair in a Fender 2-12 enclosure and I get a beautiful tone with a chime that I am seeking. I was hoping I wouldn't hurt them using close to 30 watts from a guitar amp.


The D123 and the 123A a quite different drivers, the latter having an aquaplased cone.

The LE12C is like a 123A with an LE20 coaxially mounted.

David

[speakerdave]

Thank you Dave,

The page that threw me off track was here:

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/home-comp/d130-2/page1.jpg

Yeah, those frequency response claims without reference to a relative power level--that was the old days for JBL.

[speakerdave]

Yes, I installed a pair in a Fender 2-12 enclosure and I get a beautiful tone with a chime that I am seeking. I was hoping I wouldn't hurt them using close to 30 watts from a guitar amp.

30 watts won't blow out the woofer part, but remember it's high frequency hash from clipped low-powered amps that blows tweeters.

David

[Harvey Gerst]

Here is a frequency response graph from the literature for the 2130 pro driver, which is the same as the D131, as I understand.
Okay, so either statement is somewhat valid, depending on your "interpretation"; you could claim "it has response to around 17 KHz", as per the literature, or you can claim (as I did), "it went out to around 6 or 7 KHz, and fell like a rock from there".

[Harvey Gerst]

30 watts won't blow out the woofer part, but remember it's high frequency hash from clipped low-powered amps that blows tweeters.

David
David is right - keep the tweeter levels way down low.

[speakerdave]

Okay, so either statement is somewhat valid, depending on your "interpretation"; you could claim "it has response to around 17 KHz", as per the literature, or you can claim (as I did), "it went out to around 6 or 7 KHz, and fell like a rock from there".

I agree entirely.

David

[dpapazoni]

Yes, Harvey I understand that, It doen't give any (+ or - db) for that frequency range. I always thought JBL was rigid and the (+ and - db) was understood. This publication was before they gave the understood rigidness in specs.( I think that is what I mean). Frequency volume falls like a rock when you get to 6 or 7k.


Okay, so either statement is somewhat valid, depending on your "interpretation"; you could claim "it has response to around 17 KHz", as per the literature, or you can claim (as I did), "it went out to around 6 or 7 KHz, and fell like a rock from there".

[speakerdave]

Darrell, I hope tonight's gig goes well.

David

[dpapazoni]

Yes, I will have to do that with my Tone controls on my amp, there is no attenuator. I only use a small touch of tweeter action in the tone, that I seek.


David is right - keep the tweeter levels way down low.

[dpapazoni]

The tweeter is factory set to flat response, I believe



Yes, I will have to do that with my Tone controls on my amp, there is no attenuator. I only use a small touch of tweeter action in the tone, that I seek.

[dpapazoni]

I will keep my main enclosure with me and ready, if I feel the LE12Cs won't take the punishment


The tweeter is factory set to flat response, I believe

[dpapazoni]

Thank you Gentlemen,

I need to get ready.



I will keep my main enclosure with me and ready, if I feel the LE12Cs won't take the punishment

[speakerdave]

I'm feeling a little angst for you right now. I have some D131's and D123's sitting here doing nothing, and I'd gladly teleport them to you right now. Keep your levels down. Are you mic'ing that Fender into a larger rig?

David

[dpapazoni]

No, maybe I should not try the LE12C-1s. It is very scarey

[speakerdave]

No, maybe I should not try the LE12C-1s. It is very scarey
Depends on the size of the room and what you are trying to do. I'm outside of my area of experience here, but I think a back-up is a good idea.

David

[Zilch]

How many guitar amps use cone/dome tweets?

Don't do it, I'd say.... :no:

[edgewound]

Sounds like the D120F's you have are a candidate for a magnet recharge....also, are the aluminum domes in place or have they been replaced with paper domes?....the aluminum dome with a fully charged magnet is where that "chime" tone character comes from.

If the speaker has been dropped or jolted around or constantly subjected to high temps, been near lightning storms....lots can happen in 50 years if you don't know where they've been.

Oh....and don't bother with the LE12C....you'll just hurt it.

[boputnam]

Sounds like the D120F's you have are a candidate for a magnet recharge....also, are the aluminum domes in place or have they been replaced with paper domes?....the aluminum dome with a fully charged magnet is where that "chime" tone character comes from.

If the speaker has been dropped or jolted around or constantly subjected to high temps, been near lightning storms....lots can happen in 50 years if you don't know where they've been.THAT's where I was coming from.

Nice one, edge...

[dpapazoni]

I didn't try the LE12C-1 on tonite's gig, I was too scared to try it at louder volumes. Although it was a small club.

I used my main 2-12 enclosure tonite with one of my D131Fs and one of my Jensen H-222 12" Coaxial. The Jensen horn crosses at 2k and reaches 15k or higher. It has a replaced heavy duty diaphram. The horn is efficient enough to compliment the D131F with headroom. And the Fender Tweed chime, I seek, is there. But I wish to accomplish this with all JBL components. My old D131s did this back in the 1970s.

I cannot hear the woofer of the Jensen, thank goodness. It looks like a P12N bored out to accomodate the small compression driver mounted on the back of the woofer magnet. A 6 cell lense is in the front center of the speaker.

The domes of my D131Fs are aluminum and no dents. A nice tiny and uniform bead of glue connects them to the cones(not spread out like some pics I've seen on eBay).

There is a very tiny bit of black glue covering the diaphram wires, that is also on top of one aluminum dome. The cones are #131-404 and there is a red circular stamp on the baffle-gasket. I'm not experienced to tell if it is a recone job, though. Although I was guaranteed that they were never reconed, by the original owner.

I have only had this pair of D131Fs for 8 years. Aside from dust on the fronts of the cones and lugnut scratches, they are pristine, still. I don't know of the previous history with heat, etc.

I rotate them around in the enclosure every year, or so, to even out sag.

I am not familiar with "Magnet Recharging". The D131Fs are extremely efficient. They just seem to lack the hi-frequencies(chime) that I crave for guitar. Is that a symptom of needing a recharge?

How do I get a magnet recharge?

Thanks,
dp




Sounds like the D120F's you have are a candidate for a magnet recharge....also, are the aluminum domes in place or have they been replaced with paper domes?....the aluminum dome with a fully charged magnet is where that "chime" tone character comes from.

If the speaker has been dropped or jolted around or constantly subjected to high temps, been near lightning storms....lots can happen in 50 years if you don't know where they've been.

Oh....and don't bother with the LE12C....you'll just hurt it.

[speakerdave]

I didn't try the LE12C-1 on tonite's gig, I was too scared to try it at louder volumes. Although it was a small club. . . . .

I'm very glad to learn that. You probably saved yourself an embarassing moment.

David

[dpapazoni]

Thanks SpeakerDave,http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/icons/icon10.gif

Yes, better safe than sorry, on the LE12Cs. They sound like a million bucks in the Fender Amp for my studio. And for stereo speakers. I think they sound better than my L100s. And they are still perfect and sellable, if I decide.

But, I just outgrew my L100s, too. My ears were just opened wider from my new 030 system, even though I have found that I need to buy a matched pair of D130s(not 1 at a time mismatches).

Fine tuning the fiberglass inside the cabinets has made the plywood breath right along with the D130s. Then accented with the 075s. I did have to add some bass from my preamp. Harvey is so right about the size. But still, Wow! Totally Unbelievable!



http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/icons/icon8.gif I do need help in getting a mid-hi frequency boost in my main guitar speaker enclosure, though. My amplifier head is lacking in this area.

I am using 1-D131F and a real crappy Jensen RP106 driver(which is on the H222 Jensen 12" Coaxial). I cannot hear the Jensen woofer because of the efficiency of the D131F.The Jensen horn crosses is at 2k and reaches 15k or so. It crudely compliments the D131F beautifully.

I get an amazing "almost Holy Grail" chime with this combination. I have been seeking this chime since mid 1970s, when I foolishly lost(sold) my original 1950s Fender Tweed Super Amp. I used the Super as an amp head only and a separate closed back enclosure. That amp with 2-D131s gave me complete "Holy Grail" chime.

I have a pair of JBL nice 2105 mids just hangin around. I bought them several years ago for this purpose:

What are your thoughts of using: 1 or a pair of 2105s(8 ohms each) with a high-pass filter at somewhere around 1600Hz-2000Hz, to compliment 1-D131F(a 16 0hm 2130). I have hunch that the 2105(s) would be better than the Jensen ringy metal horn.

Do you feel there is enough efficiency in the 2105(s)?

And then, I would need to learn what value capacitors to get for 1600k-2000K and how to hook in an L-Pad. Probably get several frequencies to experiment with.

The 2K high pass filter on the Jensen might be a little too high. My G(1568HZ) is a little soft. My adjacent G# amd F# are fine. I do not want to affect F#-1480Hz(important), while giving G(1568Hz) and up a boost. The 2105 curve in the library looks good, when the lows are rolled off, to me.

My guitar amp is around 25-30 watts RMS(2-5881 tubes for power) and is looking for 4 ohms. I have been running it at 8 ohms(2-16 om speakers).

I have tried all the "Holy Grail" tubes in my search for this particular chime. My amp is a "second attempt"-custom built Fender Tweed Super Amp in a Fender Bassman head , but something is different from my lost original.

I'm hoping the 2105s will complete this "Holy Grail" chime that I lost. The Jensen horn is amazingly close.

What are the thoughts? Maybe there is even a better way.

Thank you,
dp

[speakerdave]

The double 2105's might be worth a try. As you say, they have the right response range. Maybe you will discover a new magic.

(This is all guess work for me, by the way--outside of my experience)

It may be that the particular effect you liked in the Tweed with its double D131F's, as you call them, can only be achieved with the interaction of those two twelve-inch, metal-domed drivers. I dunno.

David

Edit: Do you run your D131 full range?

[dpapazoni]

Yes, I run the D131s at full range, David. I only use the horn boost, to compliment the D131s.

I was wondering if anyone knows if JBL used 8 ohm voice coils in their 16 ohm rated speakers? Every 16 ohm speaker that I have seen or heard of, measures less than 8 ohms on an ohm-meter. (including D130, D131, 075 and maybe more)

I have a pair of red-wax factory seals intact on my 16 ohm 075s, and they measure less than 8 ohms. Many people on eBay are also wondering why?

Which leads me to another question: When I select capacitors for my high-pass filter, do I use factory ratings or actual DC resistance ohms, to obtain my desired frequency range change?

[Harvey Gerst]

I was wondering if anyone knows if JBL used 8 ohm voice coils in their 16 ohm rated speakers? Every 16 ohm speaker that I have seen or heard of, measures less than 8 ohms on an ohm-meter. (including D130, D131, 075 and maybe more)

I have a pair of red-wax factory seals intact on my 16 ohm 075s, and they measure less than 8 ohms. Many people on eBay are also wondering why?

Which leads me to another question: When I select capacitors for my high-pass filter, do I use factory ratings or actual DC resistance ohms, to obtain my desired frequency range change?
Simple answer; back then, we lied. Why? Because the 8 ohm system sounded better when hooked up to the 16 ohm tap of the amplifer.

The 16 ohm speakers were really 8 ohms (about 6.7 ohms, DC) and the 32 ohm speakers were really 16 ohms (about 12 ohms, DC) . If the speaker has a DC resistance of around 6 or 7 ohms, use 8 ohms impedance for your calculations.

[dpapazoni]

Wow! Thank you Harvey.

I have been unsure for so long.

[dpapazoni]

I want to thank everyone here,

I just bought a small combo cabinet(Fender style) to house: one JBL D131F and two JBL 2105s and my Fender amp chassis, itself. I didn't have a housing for the 2105s and don't want them damaged.

The 2105s in series are so versatile and efficient in complementing a single D131F running at full range, to enlarge a Lansing-Fender chime my amp produces with a D131F. I am using an LPad to calm them and I've been experimenting different crossover frequencies using a high-pass filter for the 2105s.

That beautiful guitar chime is there and so flexible. I have to be careful not to over do it, I love it so much. It opens a new depth of expression.

Soon, I will send the D131F that I'm not using to for a checkup as I can afford it, the regaussing maybe and any other recommendations they might have.

Once I get that one back, I will send the other one to JBL and use the revitalized one.

Everyone has been so helpful on this subject. Thanks, so much.

Harvey, your ears have heard much more than mine, and your favorites are the D123s for stereo. There must be good reason. I will check a pair out when I have chance to afford them.

You came from the "Golden Era" of JBL. It is such an honor to have you helping me. Thanks for enlightening me on 16 ohms and 8 ohm speakers.

Also, thank you so much for the D131F and D120F, those speakers have inspired my guitar playing since 1963, as they have so many "Guitar Greats". I always wanted to own a D130F in a Fender Showman, but my cards never fell that way. But I've been using it's 12" brother without fail, since 1963.

And another special thanks to SpeakerDave for your immense help.

The same thanks goes out to everyone that responded to my dilemma, and all the people that made Lansing Heritage a reality.

Well, I'm going to finetune that guitar chime some more. It's beautiful already, and as only JBL can make it sound. I have polypropylene caps coming soon. I've been using electrolytic, because that is all that is available locally(RadioShack).

Has anyone ever got really lost in a chime, before? Oh boy! Talk about expression and inspiration.

I have many more questions, but I have plenty answers to work on, at the moment.

This is such a fantastic place.:applaud: :applaud: :bouncy: :applaud: :applaud:

Thank you all,
Darrell

[jlatrace]

I am using a JBL 130F in a blackface guitar amp. When it was reconed they used paper instead of aluminum. I can hear a loss of high frequency and it seems to have lost some efficiency. However, it sounds good with the amp (the AB763 circuit is very chimey).

Does anyone know where I can find the stats for a D130 or D130F with a paper instead of aluminum cone?

[Harvey Gerst]

Sounds like they might have reconed it to a 130A.

[jlatrace]

Thanks. I'll check the specs on a 130A.

[edgewound]

I am using a JBL 130F in a blackface guitar amp. When it was reconed they used paper instead of aluminum. I can hear a loss of high frequency and it seems to have lost some efficiency. However, it sounds good with the amp (the AB763 circuit is very chimey).

Does anyone know where I can find the stats for a D130 or D130F with a paper instead of aluminum cone?


We really need pictures to see what you have, and if indeed it's genuine JBL parts/recone kit.

Lot's of aftermarket hackers out there these days claiming it's "restored to factory specs" when, in fact, it's not even close, due to the wrong voice coil specs installed. That can lead to a perceived loss in efficiency because the DC resitance of the coil is wrong, and has a copper instead of aluminum wire edgewound coil.

There is on occasion when a customer will request a paper dome on a genuine recone to tame the upper edge, but then... viola'...that "JBL Sound" that they claim to not like....well... end up regretting the change.
Part of that "chime" that some refer to is the aluminum dome.

So....can you upload pics?

[billysbassplace]

:applaud:Darrell, I just came across your d130 thread. Just an FYI, I'm real happy with my d130's & my 130a's in 2 pairs of C36 cabs. I wish I could use them for bass (d140f's), but they are just too heavy to haul around.

Bill

[Thom]

The sales rap, to keep the audio guy in the right store, was that the hi fi speaker was more accurate and delicate and did not have a sound of its own. The "F" model was ruggedised. That it had its own sown was OK, even a plus. Having said this, you already have answers from people with inside knowledge that I don't have so my information may all be sales hyperbole.

[yosemitesamiam]

I own a D130F that was blown being used as a sub at a gig. The speaker was part of a pair that a friend of mine and I split...they were given to us just at the moment they were going to be tossed in the trash! I walked it into a JBL facility in Southern CA near Northridge, CA where I was living at the time, and paid I believe around $225 to have it completely rebuilt, including a re-mag. About 15 guys came out of the facility to meet me and my speaker, all of which asked how much to part with it. I had no idea what was in my hand at the time...but the amount of interest alone got me to say "NO! Not for sale!"

I then proceeded to build a sub enclosure for it and use it as part of my home theatre behind a Marantz MA500U monoblock amp. Only the word AWESOME comes to mind. The speaker blows my mind, and can't even imagine what they sounded like as a guitar amp speaker. Fabulous sound quality and amazing dizzying lows for such old technology!

Anyway, hi all!

My question is this now...I was on Thiel Small's website and actually found spec for a D130. My question is this: Are the numbers regarding Vas, Qts, Qes, Fs, xmas, etc all pretty similar? My knowledge of this has been that the casting and physical nature of the beast is the only real difference, so that the components of the speaker wouldn't come apart as easily when over driven...is this really the case?

Thanks all! Good meeting you all! :hyp:

[yosemitesamiam]

I own a D130F that was blown being used as a sub at a gig. The speaker was part of a pair that a friend of mine and I split...they were given to us just at the moment they were going to be tossed in the trash! I walked it into a JBL facility in Southern CA near Northridge, CA where I was living at the time, and paid I believe around $225 to have it completely rebuilt, including a re-mag. About 15 guys came out of the facility to meet me and my speaker, all of which asked how much to part with it. I had no idea what was in my hand at the time...but the amount of interest alone got me to say "NO! Not for sale!"

I then proceeded to build a sub enclosure for it and use it as part of my home theatre behind a Marantz MA500U monoblock amp. Only the word AWESOME comes to mind. The speaker blows my mind, and can't even imagine what they sounded like as a guitar amp speaker. Fabulous sound quality and amazing dizzying lows for such old technology!

Anyway, hi all!

My question is this now...I was on Thiel Small's website and actually found spec for a D130. My question is this: Are the numbers regarding Vas, Qts, Qes, Fs, xmas, etc all pretty similar? My knowledge of this has been that the casting and physical nature of the beast is the only real difference, so that the components of the speaker wouldn't come apart as easily when over driven...is this really the case?

Thanks all! Good meeting you all! :hyp:

By the way...the fact that JBL rebuilt my speaker...all original...metal dust cap, everything...totally factory looking. It was worth every penny of what I spent on that rebuild...now I wish I had the other one...DARN!

[clubman]

I own a D130F that was blown being used as a sub at a gig.


I dont see how a D130 or D130F for that mater could be used as a SUB? The box must be the size of a house :blink:

[yosemitesamiam]

I dont see how a D130 or D130F for that mater could be used as a SUB? The box must be the size of a house :blink:

Go figure, but it is rebuilt and seeing the same use today, but in home audio with 125W or so going to it...not the 1000W it took to blow it!

As for my box, it is 19" wide, 12" deep and 5.5' tall. That's 8.7 cubic feet to the outside of the box, plus 3 2x4s internally for bracing along the width and stuffed full of insulation. I'm also running 2 2.5"x5" ports. It is tuned to 40Hz perfectly confirmed with a spectrum analyzer and run out the sub channel of my processor which allows me to low pass at 100Hz.

It is loud. It is really, really loud. The spectrum analyzer confirmed 118dB at full tilt using a 40Hz sine wave. I have a sine wave sweep from 10Hz to 100Hz that takes about 3 minutes to get from one end to the other...at 10Hz I shook the house bad enough to lose a couple wine glasses off the shelf. Everything was jumping like mad...when it gets to audible it makes you def. I had friends run out of the house screaming. Haven't made anyone poop themselves yet...leave that to the $10,000 18" Geo Sub by Nexo.

[clubman]

The D130F is not a subwoofer, there is little to no cone excursion at all. I dont care if it was rebuilt or not. I havnt seen any subwoofers with paper surrounds and alluminum domes. Its a full range driver. You would be much better off using a actual woofer that is rated as a subwoofer and not designed for guitar use.

[yosemitesamiam]

The D130F is not a subwoofer, there is little to no cone excursion at all. I dont care if it was rebuilt or not. I havnt seen any subwoofers with paper surrounds and alluminum domes. Its a full range driver. You would be much better off using a actual woofer that is rated as a subwoofer and not designed for guitar use.

No doubt, but it still cranks! :)

One day when I can afford a "real subwoofer" I'm sure I won't be nearly as happy with it!

[clubman]

Well with the money you put into that D130F ...did you say 225... you could have found a actual sub for that kind of money. Look at the JBL 2235H....it would work way better than that D130F in the aplication you are using it in.

[yosemitesamiam]

Well with the money you put into that D130F ...did you say 225... you could have found a actual sub for that kind of money. Look at the JBL 2235H....it would work way better than that D130F in the aplication you are using it in.

I'll check it out! Maybe someone will want to work a trade or something. In my own defense, I received, and reconed this speaker way before I knew any different about all the other JBL lines of drivers. I have a line on a pair of 2245Hs right now...man they look to be the hot ticket!

[crumb]

hey harvey, your speakers give my amps the best tone ive ever heard.
you are the man.

tassos

[Harvey Gerst]

hey harvey, your speakers give my amps the best tone ive ever heard.
you are the man.

tassos
Thank you; I'm still pretty proud of them.

[57BELAIRE]

:D

[johnaec]

Harvey - do you have any info on the D140F and its evolution, (differences), to the K140? I haven't been able to find any real info on the D140F - JBL doesn't list it in their T/S specs, and a friend with a pair of D140F's would like me to help him with a cabinet. If nothing else, is it safe to assume the D140F T/S parameters might be close to the K140, with the exception of power handling capacity?

Thanks for any illumination you can throw on the subject!

John

[hardtime]

Harvey - do you have any info on the D140F and its evolution, (differences), to the K140? I haven't been able to find any real info on the D140F - JBL doesn't list it in their T/S specs, and a friend with a pair of D140F's would like me to help him with a cabinet. If nothing else, is it safe to assume the D140F T/S parameters might be close to the K140, with the exception of power handling capacity?

Thanks for any illumination you can throw on the subject!

John

I have two of the D140s and would also like the TS info on them.
I played bass through them for many years.
Late fifties and early sixties, I went through many different speakers until I switched to JBL, no more speaker troubles after that. I first used two D130Fs and then the D140s. Oh, I still use all of them.
Thanks Harvey et al

[Harvey Gerst]

I'm sure edgewound has some info on the exact TS parameters, but you might try using the TS stuff for a JBL 130A as a starting point.

[4313B]

I have two of the D140s and would also like the TS info on them.
I played bass through them for many years.You'll probably have to measure them yourself. Those older transducers vary (degaussing, sagging suspensions, etc.)

This place sells gadgets that make measuring TS parameters pretty easy - http://www.woofertester.com/

[bottom4strings]

Hi everyone! I came across this site through a Google search as I was trying to find a reputable place to recone 2 D130F's that I own that came out of a '68 Fender Dual Showman cabinet that I own. But my question is, can I recone a D130F to D140F specs? Is that possible? And what exactly are the physical, mechanical, frequency & wattage differences between them?

I am a touring bass player and used to use this cabinet many years ago with an old Ampeg V4/VT-22 head before the paper surrounds started to tear. And then I ended up putting the better of the two speakers into another cabinet, only to find that a guitar player friend of mine had a 5 string bass player friend of his blow it out! Man, was a P.O'd!! I also did something very stupid to them when the paper surrounds started to tear...I patched them with silicone caulking, but I over-did it! Anyway, that was many. many years before I knew any better. LOL!! But the incredible sounds I got from that setup, MAN!! I would love to recapture that sound once again!

I will probably keep them to spec when I have them re-coned, but I was just curious about the differences between the D130F & D140F. I also want to thank Harvey Gerst for designing these wonderful speakers, and to say what an honor it is to be in your presence on these pages! Thank you!! :applaud:

[Harvey Gerst]

Hi everyone! I came across this site through a Google search as I was trying to find a reputable place to recone 2 D130F's that I own that came out of a '68 Fender Dual Showman cabinet that I own. But my question is, can I recone a D130F to D140F specs? Is that possible? And what exactly are the physical, mechanical, frequency & wattage differences between them?
I believe you can use the E140 kit to recone a D130F to a D140F. The D140F cone is ribbed and uses a copper voice coil instead of aluminum and will handle more power. Those are the basic differences between the two speakers.

[jcrobso]

I have a 5 string bass and for sure you should use the E140 recone.
Many people say the the D130F is good for bass. Well it will work, but it will get blown out. This is why Harvey designed the D140F! I have a pair of D140F that are over 40 years old and still sound great!.

[Baron030]

Hi bottom4strings

If you are going to have these drivers re-coned, then it is well worth having the Alnico magnets recharged at the same time. When I had my D130 drivers re-coned, it only cost another $20 per driver to have the magnets recharged. And considering the high cost of the JBL C8RE130 parts, labor, shipping, and handling, the small additional charge was a very worth while investment.

Considering your application, I would recommend going with genuine JBL C8RE140 parts.

Also, it might be a good idea to re-tune the enclosure’s ports to match E140 Thiele-Small Parameters. Just measure and post the inside dimensions of that '68 Fender Dual Showman cabinet and someone here can crunch the numbers and recommend the best port tuning. Actually, there might be two different port tuning solutions, depending on if you play a 4-string (low open E) or a 5-string (low open B) bass.

Baron030:)

[hardtime]

The 140 will take more abuse but don't be disapointed that it will take a lot more power for the same level of sound. The 140 is not nealy as efficient as a 130.
I'm a bass player, I use 4 and 5 string basses.
The D130F was an amazing speaker, it had a gooy substance on the surrounds, I bought two in about 1961 and are still in good shape. I have two D140s also.
I could not estimate the number of hours these speakers have endured and in some really bad environments.
Kudos to the guys that designed and built these speakers.