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mikebake
11-12-2003, 08:19 AM
Seeing some of the really great threads lately has gotten me to thinking; if you recollect, our esteemed webmaster isn't listening to JBL's himself at this point, other than perhaps his computer speakers!
Let's dream up a reasonable speaker for him, debate the various components and crossovers. In addition, I'm thinking that between us, we inventory our stock and see if we can't come up with all the drivers and parts to donate, after seeing who has what components.
We "design" online in the thread, pick out the box design and driver complement etc., and then choose someone to build it (chip in to cover cabinet materials expense). Everyone ships him their components or dough, or perhaps the box builder ships the cabs on to someone else for the final install/testing!!??
Then we ship this baby to Don to enjoy, and as thanks for helping disseminate lots of good info. Whaddaya think, guys?
Two way, three way, four way?? 4430 type? Something using the 2123J's still on the website? Horns, no horns???
Scour the closets, it could be fun!
Any interest??

boputnam
11-12-2003, 08:40 AM
...and very ambitious. Needs a protagonist - Mike, you're it!

I've got a pair of 2405's that'd nicely top a four-way. But then, I think Don needs to go LARGE, just like this Forum is to us! :yes:

Oldmics
11-12-2003, 08:52 AM
NOT LISTENING TO JBLs !!!!!!!!!!! HERESY. First is to find out everything about the room availiable to place speakers in. Are we building a cavernous horn system for all of Canada to hear or a bookshelf system? Also aesthetics, is a W.A.F. situation involved or is the utilitarian theater look acceptable?Educate us on the room for sonic demands first and then whatever visuals are desired go from there.Oldmics

mikebake
11-12-2003, 09:00 AM
I'm thinking of something reasonably shippable; dimensions and weight that don't get too out of hand. Maybe around 100 lbs piece or lower??

mikebake
11-12-2003, 09:03 AM
I don't know that I have anything worthwhile for the project, but if someone has something that they don't want to just give away, but would sell reasonably, I would buy it to donate it.

TimG
11-12-2003, 09:37 AM
I will help with measurements and crossover design in a few months but I'm going to be really busy with work until the end of the year, starting next week. I will have 2 complete measurement systems and 2 crossover CAD programs once I upgrade to the latest version of Soundeasy. The new system will allow me to audition digitial simulations of passive networks before building them.

boputnam
11-12-2003, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by mikebake
I'm thinking of something reasonably shippable; dimensions and weight that don't get too out of hand. Maybe around 100 lbs piece or lower?? I know he once, here, waxed-on about his appreciation of the 4310 - but that may be more as a vintage enthusiast, than L/T listening enjoyment, per se.

From Giskard's commentary, the Ti series should be given serious consideration...

mikebake
11-12-2003, 09:40 AM
Cool! Time shouldn't be a huge issue; I see this thing taking a bit of time to sort it all out and get rolling!!

TimG
11-12-2003, 09:49 AM
If that is the size speaker he wants then we could raise donations and get him a pair of L80ti or L100ti from ebay. They might need some refinishing but there are people here who can do that too.

Wardsweb
11-12-2003, 09:51 AM
Don't know if you can use them, but I've got a set of Altec 811 horns in the garage you can have for free.

Ken Pachkowsky
11-12-2003, 11:03 AM
Count me in.

mikebake
11-12-2003, 11:08 AM
Nothing wrong with buying something, but I was thinking we could come up with something a bit cooler and more fun, and probably more bang for the buck. Build something using the best thinking/ideas off the forum members............more fun that way, too. So, what is lurking out there for components? Some baskets, maybe?

Mr. Widget
11-12-2003, 11:24 AM
I would suggest it should be a "Lansing" project incorporating both Altec and JBL components.

I agree with Oldmics, that a discussion with the "client" is in order to find out if he has the room for a pair of large horn fully horn loaded speakers going down to 30Hz with the requisite 100+ sq foot mouth or even some JBL/Altec Model 19 hybrids.


Shipping won't be a problem because we will do a road trip from Audiobeer's place (who else should finish these babies).:D :D

mikebake
11-12-2003, 11:37 AM
Now you're talkin'. I like your thinking.

Ken Pachkowsky
11-12-2003, 03:14 PM
Lets a bunch of us meet next summer in Winnipeg to deliver these babies to the big guy. Could be a fun time?

Thoughts?

Ken

Oldmics
11-12-2003, 03:20 PM
MMMMMMM , Molsoms

Mr. Widget
11-12-2003, 04:00 PM
While I am game, there is a slight problem. We haven't yet been invited.:eek:

Robh3606
11-12-2003, 04:50 PM
:scoot: SURPRISE :bouncy:

Don's response :jawdrop:



Rob :)

John
11-12-2003, 04:55 PM
Cool i am in the peg as we speak!!!:rockon2:

John
11-12-2003, 05:00 PM
Cool i am in the peg as we speak!!!:rockon2:

Steve Schell
11-18-2003, 12:32 PM
The proposed project is a fine idea, and will correct a wrong that has existed for too long!

I propose that we name the project the Save A McRitchie Foundation. My JBL inventory is a bit low at the moment, but do have the following components available for possible donation to the cause: pair D123s, pair H91 horns; pair 2420 bodies (need diaphragms). I may be able to scare up a pair of D130s as well.

mikebake
11-18-2003, 12:40 PM
We need to hear from Don, and we need to keep this thread rolling!!!
MBB

Tom Loizeaux
11-18-2003, 06:01 PM
Shoot, anybody can buy "off-the-shelf" JBL speakers, we need to custom design a pair for Don that speaks to our extreme perspectives!
Let's see what he can accomodate.

Tom

mikebake
11-19-2003, 07:04 AM
You're spot on, Tom!

subwoof
11-19-2003, 02:40 PM
Well I've got a cabinet shop that's equal to norm's on "this old house" and lots of 12 and 15" alnico 22XX baskets...my speciality was building variants of the 4530 basshorn with hardwood plywood. I once made some for a theater that had an integral 12" horn loaded mid and 2390 lens. It sounded so nice they were stolen within a month...:) Perhaps a corner ( aka "C" ) version and using the 1.5" 2450SL with the 2352 mid-size bi radial?

Simple 2 way and ALL horn loaded yet has a somewhat negotiable spousal acceptance factor..?

sub

ps- it's molson ( with an "n" ) and only chilled export ale and bradours accepted...:) I'll bring the local 8.5% belguim ale to compare.....HIC

mikebake
11-19-2003, 02:56 PM
More good options! We gotta get Don to give us a bit of direction here.

Tom Loizeaux
11-22-2003, 09:33 AM
It is too early for any conclusions about how to approach this "Speakers for Don" project, but I do have a suggestion.
Because we have a broad range and of experience, information, and talents here, coming to a consensus and sharing on a project like this is goining to be a big challange. To make this doable, I have the following suggestions:

Settle on a design that is JBL Pro quality, yet very agreeable in terms of decor and simplicity. I think a great example of this is the GS 11 speaker kit from Gold Sound. Check it out at www.goldsound.net. The GS 11 kit includes a pair of JBL 2235Hs, 2118Hs, 2404Hs, crossovers and cabinet building instructions.
Because of the expertise of some of our Forum members, I think we could find someone to agree to build these cabinets, someone else to build the passive crossovers (@ 300 & 5K), and maybe have others contribute these drivers, or money to fund the purchase of them and cover the other costs. I think Gold Sound would cooperate with us, and maybe give us a price break on this, if we explained what we're trying to do. Though I haven't heard these actual speaker units, I feel they present some of JBL's "finest" in a very compact (18x17x44")(small footprint at least) speaker design that would please most of us...and most importantly, Don!
Check this out and let's hear what you guys think.

Tom

Don McRitchie
11-24-2003, 02:41 PM
Jeeze. I go away for 6 weeks, and look what happens. Rob pretty much has my reaction down pat:jawdrop:

I am truly speechless guys. Thank you very much for considering this gesture, and I won't pretend I'm not interested. The JBLpro speakers in my Compaq laptop just aren't cutting it anymore (it actually does say JBLpro on the laptop case, but damned if I can find where those 2226's are hiding)

If it helps, I can give you some background on my listening environment. I live in a loft conversion of a 100 year old warehouse. I have brick walls all around, so that side to side, I'm pretty isolated, but between floors is a different matter. Therefore, high output is not required and would be a problem. The combined living room and dining room is around 15' X 30' with a 12' ceiling. You can see a picture of the interior with my SAE speakers here:

http://www.audiocircuit.com/9041-esl-circuit/Commercial/Sae-SAE/9041CMSAE-PIC-MarkXIV.htm

Forgive me if I am overreaching in stating my dream, but it has always been my desire to have a system based around 2235's. Even at moderate volumes, I find that their bass dynamics and extension are unmatched. Nonetheless, I'd be open to any suggestions.

Certainly you're welcome to party in Winnipeg. I would suggest waiting a bit for warmer temps. This past evening it was -24 degrees C.

Mr. Widget
11-24-2003, 03:03 PM
Say no more.

Ok guys, let's get on it! We've got to get ready to party in the Peg this summer!:D

mikebake
11-24-2003, 04:05 PM
Okay, so what say you all about the 2235 foundation? Anyone have any baskets?? Two way? Three way?? I'm thinking three way. Tom, Robert, Widget, et al???

mikebake
11-24-2003, 04:47 PM
Hey Subwoof, what baskets can be redone as the 2235 again??? And Don, check out subwoofs idea and also Tom Loizeaux idea. What think you??
Boputnam, Ken, you've heard Don speak. Oldmics. Whaddaya think, gents. Lets start with the 2235, eh?

subwoof
11-24-2003, 06:42 PM
Hey oh baked one.

I know a source of about 20 JBL 15" frames - almost any 15 can become a 2235 EXCEPT the deep gap types ( 2220 family ) and the really deep gap types (LE15/2215/K145 family )

Now before ANYONE contacts me and begs for the chance to buy these I need to confirm this week. I have been away from the office for 2 months dealing with a death in the family...

Another suggestion:

(2) 2235H
(1) 2012H
(1) 2450SL/2332 ( array )
(1) 2405H

A simple biamped vertical L/R off centered pair similar to the L250 made out of 1" baltic birch ( Lotsa birch in the canadien woods guys )

Xover can be a modified 3107 ( lots of them around ) and I can build the ( 4345 version ) 5234A cards....

Don McRitchie
11-24-2003, 07:17 PM
oooooh!!! I have absolutely no complaints about the direction Tom indicated and that Subwoof has followed up. How could I?

I really like the 434X concept with a midbass driver to keep the horn cross-over up higher. I always thought the lower cross-over points on JBL compression drivers led to honkiness. The concept of biamping is also attractive and I can get the amps necessary for this along with an electronic x-over.

subwoof
11-24-2003, 07:37 PM
Wow...the master speaketh...:)

I have a pair of 4343's that "someday" will be finished but I have always preferred the larger format drivers over the smaller ones for clarity ( and they *are* lower distortion ) for vocals.

I am planning a version of what I posted using the (4) 1400Nd's I got from JBL a few years ago but was unsure if they would go low enough based on previous postings by others. They are more baffle freindly and would look a LOT like the 250's big brother.

As far as the horns, back in the "good old days" we had to settle for monstrous aluminum airplane wings ( 2350 ), baffle splatter ( 2395 ) or more recently long throats ( 2382 ) to use the 4" coils...

With the 1.5" drivers and fast expansion horns ( 2332 small, 2381 medium and 2352 large ) and improved phaseplugs, there is no reason to suffer with 1" anymore if building from scratch.

And it's possible to leave out the slots since the pattern / response is plenty on these too. Of course being able to sterilize a teenage bat with 25K is still fun...

And if any of you Xover experts want to weigh in on this I'd like to hear suggestions for the passive for these 2 configurations

sub

Ken Pachkowsky
11-24-2003, 08:04 PM
Guys

Let’s try and arrive at a design and work out the budget ASAP.

We could elect someone who uses PayPal to collect and distribute the funds.

In fact let’s setup a committee to get this underway. If I may suggest, the committee should consist of:

1: Accounting
2: Design
3: Acquisition
4: Construction & Testing
5: Delivery and Presentation Event Planning

Once we decide on the design, the components could be acquired through donations or ebay etc.

I live close to Orange County Speaker Repair and would be happy to arrange repairs etc to any components that may require it. This could save on shipping costs?

If planned right, the delivery of the finished system could be a great event.

Thoughts?

Ken

Oldmics
11-24-2003, 08:14 PM
O.K ,So a pair of 2225 frames reconed with C8R2235 kits will do the chore for the low freq?If so,lemmie know and I"ll cover that.Oldmics

subwoof
11-24-2003, 08:21 PM
I could chip in the 5234A with proper 4345 cards should the electronics go in that direction.

sub

Don McRitchie
11-24-2003, 08:35 PM
I have one request to make this project of value to as many people as possible. I'd love to develop a essay for the site showing the development of a project speaker from start to end. The more documentation the better - starting with an original project definition along with the rationalle, evolution through design and construction (particularly focussing on how unforseen problems were dealt with) and ending with the finished system. This implies a comprehensive photo history from start to end that I think would be of interest to many readers.

Ian Mackenzie
11-25-2003, 01:08 AM
Sounds like a great project 43XX wow, and Don has a nice listening room.

Pity my visit is not a little earlier, I would love to party.

Groovy baby, as Austin Power often says.

Count me in for any assistance, and I would be delighted to assist with a hi end active crossover if the project goes in that direction...nothing but the best.

Ian:rockon1:

Mr. Widget
11-25-2003, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by Don McRitchie
oooooh!!! I have absolutely no complaints about the direction Tom indicated and that Subwoof has followed up. How could I?

I really like the 434X concept with a midbass driver to keep the horn cross-over up higher. I always thought the lower cross-over points on JBL compression drivers led to honkiness. The concept of biamping is also attractive and I can get the amps necessary for this along with an electronic x-over.

I agree that the 434X is a great starting point. To further reduce said honkiness, I would suggest the following: Using 4344 components and crossovers bi-amped or not and substituting a pair of 2441s and those wood horns that showed up in the Market Place a while back.:D

subwoof
11-25-2003, 06:44 AM
Gee - I have (4) JBL 2397 horns I rescued from a sound company that have been partially restored. I rebuilt the throat mounting flanges with solid oak and 3 ply 1/8"birch using gorilla glue.

They are still unfinished and would be a good starting place for the 4344 design project....??

The front lips were routed down and I haven't installed the solid wood trim yet.....the throats are included but not pictured.

That horn was always the best sounding 2" but 99% of the cabinets I built had space and longevity issues ( ever put particle board on road use? ) so the flanged horns were preferred.

Any thoughts Mr mold maker?

sub

boputnam
11-25-2003, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by Don McRitchie
Forgive me if I am overreaching in stating my dream, but it has always been my desire to have a system based around 2235's. Even at moderate volumes, I find that their bass dynamics and extension are unmatched. You and that other Canadian nut, Ken Pachalphabet! I recall some sage critique once proffered by a one Giskard, that if you have room for one, the 2245H is an unmatched piece of engineering. Give it one watt, you get 1 watt back. Oh well... The leagues of 2235H fans surely have me outnumbered.

Don't forget: I'm holding those 2405's for you, so consider the top-end "covered". :yes:

Now, if your desires might take you down the 4345 Path of Unlimited Devotion, I'd be pleased to host The Widget for a measuring party - we could lay one of the badboys on his back and make sure we take meaningful measurements in reproducable manner. I know Ian's close-as-close-can-get, but think even he would welcome putting a caliper in a place or two...

boputnam
11-25-2003, 08:24 AM
I almost forgot!!

WE GOT THE JBL BLUE PAINT, TOO!! :dancin:

I'm good for as many quarts as you need! :bouncy:

Whoo-whoo!!!

:hmm: Now, about your Will... :rotfl:

TimG
11-25-2003, 09:12 AM
I think the 4-way biamped system is the way to go. Remember, JBL Pro still has some 2123Js available from the tent sale. It looks like 2235H woofers and 2405H super tweeters have already been donated.

Do people think a modern, vertical version of the 4355 would be too big? It could incorporate (2) 2235H, 2020H, 2405H, and 2441, 2445, or 2450 on a wood horn or a 2451 on a 2332 horn.

I can't donate money right now because my wife was just laid off, but I can donate some time. I have two crossover design CAD programs (LspCAD and SoundEasy 7.0) so I can help with either an active or passive design. My new program even allows me to listen to simulated crossovers before I build them. I also have several of the mentioned drivers on hand, or on the way, to help with protoyping (2245H, 2234H, 2020H, 2380A, 2445J). I have the tools to build prototype cabinets as well if people could donate some money for prototype wood.

mikebake
11-25-2003, 09:38 AM
I can do the accounting (and also the acquisition, if needed). I have an established Paypal business account I used for the Midwest Audiofest for the last two years.
My email for Paypal is mike@allannott.com

Now, who will be on the other teams??
1: Accounting
Mike Baker and????


2: Design


3: Acquisition


4: Construction & Testing


5: Delivery and Presentation Event Planning


BTW, the 2245 idea is kinda cool. Harder to procure, perhaps?

Ken Pachkowsky
11-25-2003, 10:21 AM
I have a new pair of 2123H's that could be used.

Lets get the group organized and get this started.

Where is everyone located?

Perhaps a conference call could be setup? Or we could use Roger Wilco and talk live to each other over the web. This would be cheaper?

Bo, as per Don's wishes, how would you like to take on the documentation of this endeavor?

Widget, do you have time to take on the construction? I know there are others who share the talent as well.

As far as design, lets have some volunteers.

Mike has expressed interest in the accounting.

Download and install this:

http://rogerwilco.gamespy.com/products/downloads/rwdload.html

I am at ip address 66.74.0.173:3782/JBL

Lets try to use this so we can all chat live. If you are running a firewall, this may not work without adjusting your settings.

If this does not work we could try MIRC and setup a JBL chat room.

Ken

Oldmics
11-25-2003, 10:26 AM
I suggest that we follow Dons desired dream system and use the 2235 drivers that he is partial to.As I stated I can donate two (is this enough or do we need four?) 2225 frames that will be reconed with 2235H JBL kits.I would really like to see the original 2235 frames used but I just don"t have any at all,sorry Don.I like Widgets 4 way design using that 2397 flair.I also agree with Giskard to offset the mid driver for the reasons he states.Cool , now we got a left,right pair happening.Lets decide on the rest of the necessary componets and I will do some more "dumpster diving" and see what else I can contribute from my immense pile "o" crap.My question is , Are we designing JBLs latest and greatest series "THE McRITCHIE HERITAGE SERIES"Keep the ideas flowing,Oldmics Don"t forget about the grill cloth-What are we going to cover this with if it is to be grilled at all?See my other post about grill cloth

mikebake
11-25-2003, 10:57 AM
We can use chat, or leave the dialogue on here for all to see; either way.

Oldmics, since you are donating the frames, I'll pay to have them reconed. How do we accomplish that? Someone mentioned Orange County..................

Everyone cool with 2235 and 2405? What else can we incorporate?

boputnam
11-25-2003, 11:11 AM
...and choose.

With all the great advice/experiences here, the best way to get started is for Don to:

1) choose the transducer assemblage
2) choose the cabinet configuration (i.e., vertical like the 4345, or wider aspect ratio like the 4355) - afterall, he has to live with them.
3) twin 2235's?
4) four-way?

He should guide on these, and then us JBL Elves can go to work. Then, we are hitting escape velocity... :scoot:

Ken Pachkowsky
11-25-2003, 11:13 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mikebake
[B]We can use chat, or leave the dialogue on here for all to see; either way.

The only problem I see with the above, it will be very time consuming to get this off the ground. With a live chat, much would be accomplished in a very short time.

Once the committee is setup, this forum would work fine.

I have setup a chat room called JBL on mirc. Here is the server I am using. The following is an EfNet server.

irc.arcti.ca

Its running now.

Mr. Widget
11-25-2003, 11:15 AM
The horns that I was hinting at while virtually identical sounding to the 2397s are the Westlake version. (They are just prettier IMHO.)

For those that may have missed them, here is a photo.

Bo, I think you are right about the 2245 being a bit more "ultimate", but Don did mention a need for limited maximum SPL. I think he will be pleased with a pair of 2235s and their somewhat less significant demand on interior real-estate.

Giskard, I threw out that design as a catalyst for discussion. If we can improve upon it, and I am sure that is possible, please have at it.

This might be a good time to see if this is a direction that Don would like to go. If it is maybe we could put this piece of the puzzle into Mike's matrix.

Robh3606
11-25-2003, 11:20 AM
Don

I see lots of horn possiblities but what do you like?? They are all a little different. You have a preference?? If you do don't be shy:p With 2235 2123 2405 a jump to 4344 is not out of the question. But is that what you want?? Large format CD, small OK??

You seem to have the drivers well on the way. I will help with the material cost of the cabinets.

Mike I can send a donation up to your Pay Pal account??


Rob:)

Mr. Widget
11-25-2003, 11:21 AM
Thanks, Giskard.

I think Rob is right though and we should find out what Don thinks.

Oldmics
11-25-2003, 12:07 PM
Hi Guys,Sorry if I was not clear in my communication about the driver donation.I have been reconing for YEARS and have salvaged a great number of cone kits that customers were disposing of.These would include the 2235 cone kits that I propose to use for this donation.Now these salvaged cone kits are in need of refoaming and I would also replace the spider assembly.They are otherwise perfect.Not out of round and electrically in perfect shape.Not new cone kits mind you but definatly parts that I would not hesitate to use for my applications.Plus the pics would show the refoaming and respidering procedure that I would preform.Its a no cost situation for me and I have a boatload of frames to use.I would just check the gauss on the frames and make sure that the best frames are to be used.I have 4 of the donor kits availiable if Don wants to double up on the sub info.Again I would like to use 2235 frames but I "no gots". So you get 2 or 4 finished reconed drivers donated to the project.Best regards,Oldmics

subwoof
11-25-2003, 12:17 PM
Hmmm....I have a pair of 2245H baskets that I *was* thinking of using but.....

A single 18 would be a smaller cabinet than a pair of 15's ( and much less baffle area )

4345 is a real good point to start from...4355 variants needed a lot of EQ.

I definitely would use the 2012H rather than the 2202/2022 due to size and any 2441's should be remagnetized and use new diaphrams ( D16R2441 ) I have a stash of 2450SL drivers ( aquaplas coated 2445 diaphram in a Nd 2451 driver ) and a few NOS 2450J.

The be / Nd 4344 combo would be interesting but that 3" driver is hard to find in this country and I cannot order it without a real part number ( giskard?? ) *not* the model number...:)


sub

mikebake
11-25-2003, 01:00 PM
I keep hearing the double 2235 idea; what about a single?? (although Oldmics has offered four!!!!!)
Guess I'll try the chat thing now..................haven't messed with it before........what am I doing, downloading a client?? Going to a website first????
Duh?!

Robh3606
11-25-2003, 01:05 PM
Ken

Roger Wilco is a good idea. Want to set-up a time later when we are all home from work and can participate??

Rob:)

subwoof
11-25-2003, 01:09 PM
Hey mike - clue me in on this "download" - I am just a picture / email kinda guy too...:)

Ken Pachkowsky
11-25-2003, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Robh3606
Ken

Roger Wilco is a good idea. Want to set-up a time later when we are all home from work and can participate??

Rob:)

In retrospect, MIRC would probably be better. The conversations could be be saved as part of the archive for the project.

download MIRC at the following:

http://www.mirc.com/get.html

Install and setup to go to this Efnet Server.

irc.arcti.ca

type /join #JBL

If you have not used IRC before you should be able to figure it out.

Ken

mikebake
11-25-2003, 01:12 PM
I found the client and downloaded it, haven't hooked up on the right server yet; I'm actually having to work some today too.............!!!!! I'll let you know, or someone else can chime in, too.

Earl K
11-25-2003, 02:12 PM
Hi

Wow, a guy goes away for a bit - to work - and all this breaks out . ( I'm also going into 2 days of R&R blackout time so I better speak now )

I haven't read all the posts but it seems that 2235s & 2405s are now a given . If for financial resons ths project gets knocked back to a 2-way system I can contribute a pair of pristine Altec 416-8C . I wanted to match these to a JBL 2430 driver on a 60° x 30° horn - to make an update on a Model 19 - but that project is so far away I would rather realize it's execution for Don - if its of any use.

(A) Can I suggest that the system be divided into separate top & bottom boxes - ( like a upsized / split 250Ti ) There are numerous advantages to this approach.

(i) Cost of shipping
(ii) Easier ( cheaper ) to fix mistakes in construction & execution of such
(iii) More manageable parts - as a size for the constructor .
(iv) Easier on the back of the actual owner for room placements , etc.
(v) Added flexibility for future upgrades / changes

(B) I was going to suggest raising monies & buying the "Performance Series" PC600 parts and making MTM "top boxes" sitting on top of separate le14s that I would donate . That seems to be out - which is fine - if the room is actually there for 15" woofers.

(C) I like subwoofs suggestion of the 2012 deep-gapped mids . They do offer sonic advantages in resolution . Matched with the neodym 2230 drivers on an unknown horn, these would represent some of JBLs current crop of Hi-End products .
I prefer bigger 2450SL sized drivers myself, after "taming" and tweaking that size of diaphragmed driver, there's no going back - but they may be beyond the financial reach of this project.. Havng said that I can easily contribute a pair a excess inventory 2426 drivers if Don doesn't mind the smaller diaphragmed driver size.

(D) Horn pattern should be matched to the listening environment to maximize the acoustic interface of the system. So, Don need to give us some info on room dimensions.

(E) I'm game to design & build some external crossovers, that will be charge- coupled and accessible to future upgrades of capacitor types - should Don decide to become a DIYer cap type of guy . Obviously , doing this long distance without the actual components present is tough.
Luckily , I'm an expatriate "flat-lander" from the Canadian prairies - meaning - in certain seasons I'm able to make "house-calls" to Winnipeg.

(F) Final suggestion : fix a shipping date & work backwords from that.
Having a timeline to work to is a necessary discipline that will also help "weed=out" a lot of "wishfull thinking . I vote for May 2004 - just before planting season on the prairies .

I'm toast & must sign off now . Forgive the spelling mistakes / & other errors

( Bo - Val D'Or/Rouan ??? Wow, you really are a geologist !!! )

Earl K

mikebake
11-25-2003, 02:15 PM
Great post, Earl, and nice to hear from you. May 2004 looks great, eh??? 6 months. It'll fly by quicker than we think.

mikebake
11-25-2003, 02:24 PM
Hey guys, go back to Kens post on the chat room he has set up and join us.......may be able to get things rolling better on there.......if you can't, for some reason, at least keep it rolling on here!! Thanks! We're having fun!
MBB

Mr. Widget
11-25-2003, 02:56 PM
No time for chatting. You guys figure it out and come back and let us know what we can do to help.

Widget

mikebake
11-25-2003, 03:06 PM
It does seem a bit problematic. We'll just keep hammering on here for now. If we need to we can all get on at some preset time. Time to hear a bit more from Don, it seems.
MBB

boputnam
11-25-2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Widget
No time for chatting. You guys figure it out and come back and let us know what we can do to help. Same, here...

and:
Originally posted by mikebake
Time to hear a bit more from Don, it seems. I suggested that too, a few hours back. Since this ain't no surprise, we might as well get the starting blocks right, before we run the wrong race... :slink:

Don McRitchie
11-25-2003, 08:36 PM
I promise a detailed reply. However, with the website move going on, it won't be until tomorrow.

boputnam
11-25-2003, 09:38 PM
Ready!! :bouncy:

GordonW
11-25-2003, 09:48 PM
I don't really have any relevant JBL hardware here to put in, but I'd be quite happy, to be involved in the crossover design/ box tuning/testing phase of this. A colleague of mine, has a complete LEAP/LMS setup... we could easily test and optimize this sucker, once it's in a state where it's playable in a "mock-up" form or whatever.

I've also had pretty extensive experience, with box bracing and other forms of "box behavior control". I'd be glad to carefully examine whatever enclosure is built, to see if there's anywhere careful damping or bracing can make it better.

Of course, this would mean someone would have to bring or send the speaker system to Atlanta sometime... as long as this isn't an insurmountable task, it'd be a pleasure for me to lend a hand...

BTW: I really dig the idea of a "Mother of All 250Ti's" style truncated-pyramid cabinet. THAT would make a statement, no doubt! Maybe we could make the pyramid in two parts- a base section for the one or two 2235s per side, and a midbass/mid/UHF section, made to "interlock" together, one on top of the other, continuing the pyramid shape and dimensions? That'd certainly make it easier to transport (you could probably send the sections by UPS, even) and possibly better sounding as well (isolated woofer and midbass cabinets, totally)...

Oh, one other thing: internal wiring. I could probably scare up some end-of-roll remnants of various AudioQuest cabling, that could be sliced up into individual conductors for internal wiring. Good stuff- solid-core, high-temp high-linearity dielectrics, high-purity, long-crystal copper, very neutral. Since we don't really need long lengths for this, it'd be the perfect thing to use the 6-8 feet left on a roll of say, AQ Slate, Bedrock, or whatnot. Most of these are like 6 or 8 18-guage conductors, individually insulated... could make LOTS of internal wiring...

Regards,
Gordon.

boputnam
11-26-2003, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by Don McRitchie
I promise a detailed reply. :hmm: Been thinkin' 'bout that.

If it were me, I think I'd cozy right-up close to Giskard, and seek some divine wisdom. Like a Golden Retriever sitting on your feet. Yea, we all got good ideas and some very useful experiences, but there's nobody out here with the depth of knowledge of that Techbot. Just imagine the network... :D

Plus, we know G.T. is lurking out here, too... :p

Stay on-the-ready, JBL Elves...

mikebake
11-26-2003, 09:21 AM
WOOOHOOO! This is ALREADY fun, and more to come!!!

Don McRitchie
11-26-2003, 02:53 PM
Hi Bo

I had the exact same thought. I've sent Giskard a PM and am waiting for a reply. In the interim, I've managed to recruit a technical advisor. I want his name kept out of this public discussion, but you shouldn't have any trouble figuring out who it is. I have sent some suggestions to him and am awaiting his reply. Until I get some more feedback, I won't be making the detailed post I mentioned earlier. I'll have to delay this until tomorrow when I will be in a better position to provide informed suggestions.

Robh3606
11-26-2003, 04:43 PM
Hello Don

Just a thought I have been working/thinking about a box that will allow me to change out the top end. Like the rotateable 4343 top with a twist. You keep the 2235 in place and then drop in either a 4343/4344 top or a 4430. Just one more little idea to add to this. This way you can do damn near anything including hybrids with a 10" 2344 combo or any other future driver combos. Just swap out the panel and adjust the ports if required.

Rob:)

Don McRitchie
11-26-2003, 04:51 PM
OK, I got a response from my advisor much more quickly than I anticipated. This allows me to move forward.

Before I get started there are a few things I need to say. There have been a number of events over the past couple of months that have left me truly humbled and raised my spirits more than at any time in running this site. This “McRitchie Project Speaker” caps it off and I do want to let everyone know just how appreciative I am. It started with the fund drive that exceeded my expectations and I again want to thank everyone who participated. Next came John Nebel’s offer to host our site. For those who don’t know, this is our own nebel@csdco.com and I think the significance of his gesture cannot be overstated. Not only is he donating the webspace and bandwidth (that believe me is considerable) but he and his employee Ann have been providing a level of technical support that is unprecedented in my experience. My heartfelt thanks, and I trust the thanks of all of our members go out to them.

Now comes the “McRitchie Project Speaker” and I am speechless. I do want to make a couple of things clear about this project from my perspective. There is a very real danger that my exuberance about this will push my aspirations beyond what is reasonable, viable or cost effective. When this happens – Stop Me! I recognize that this project will only be the result of contributions of time, much effort and real out of pocket costs. In other words, every suggestion I make has consequences. Being the recipient of the final output of this project can only bias my perspective and may temporarily blind me to the true impact of some of these consequences. Therefore, feel free to be blunt and bring me down to earth as necessary.

Now some housekeeping. I would suggest renaming this effort to the Lansing Heritage Project Speaker since it is my sincere hope that our membership at large will derive some benefit from the final result. The project has moved to the stage where some privacy issues have arisen. As a result, I have created a new private forum called the Lansing Heritage Project into which I am suggesting all future conversations on the details of the project should be held. This forum is only visible to participants of the project. For now, I have set it up so that everyone that has participated in this thread is a member of the new forum. If you want to be added as a member, just PM me and I will make it happen. However, due to the privacy issues, I need to keep membership down to those that want to participate. This participation does not have to be monetary or of tangible goods. Just offering advice is sufficient. However, I do want to keep lurkers out. You must join the conversation to become a member. I am developing a new thread called “Design Parameters” based on the conversation with my advisor and it will be the first in the new forum. I will keep this thread open for another day or so if people want to respond to this post. Then, I intend to close it so that discussion moves to the new forum.

In closing, I want to thank Mike Baker for coming up with this idea and pursuing it as strongly as he has. Mike – I am truly in your debt.

mikebake
11-26-2003, 10:14 PM
Hey Don, YOU'RE the MAN, so thank YOU. And we WILL make this thing happen, because it will be FUN!! There are so many great and knowledgeable dudes on here, and it's a blast to see the brainpower at work. In the end, some time down the road, you'll be listening to some music and suddenly the SUBLIME moment happens and you can just smile, because your speakers will be gettin' the job done. On with the show....

boputnam
11-26-2003, 11:03 PM
(need a "hat's off" Smilie...)

And, to add, humbly, to what Mike posts: Don, it is thrilling you've accepted his proposal. And, the manner in which you do it, will indubitably create a new, and latest vintage, World Class JBL. So very cool.

Your wisdom shows through. Magnanimous. (need another "hat's off" Smilie...)

Audiobeer
11-26-2003, 11:28 PM
I can offer very little to this project in the way of knowledge. I would love to help out in the way of funds or procuring any woods or materials other than the hardware!

JBL Dog
11-27-2003, 02:09 AM
If ya'll need any parts, etc. let me know. I have a few hundred parts, etc. that are in the "dog-house" vault. Some are pristine, some are landfill.

I guess when I have a few spare days, I'll read the entire thread!

:banghead:

This message comes from JBL Dog :band:

Ian Mackenzie
11-27-2003, 02:19 PM
I would also like to participate despite the geographic distance.

I can help out with the active filter, offer sources for customise electronics with the support of our cousins at diyaudio.com and Passlabs.

Ian

mikebake
11-28-2003, 06:36 AM
Ian and Dog;
email Don and get on the Project Forum

jandregg
11-28-2003, 07:01 AM
I don't have the experience of many of the forum. I can and do offer modest woodworking skills and very modest financial aid.

John

Don McRitchie
11-28-2003, 07:37 AM
Ian and Dog were both added when their posts first showed up in this thread and I've just added jandregg. This means that you should now see a forum called "Lansing Heritage Project Speaker" just below "Forum Issues". This is where all of the fun conversations are happening now.

JeffW
11-28-2003, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by GordonW

BTW: I really dig the idea of a "Mother of All 250Ti's" style truncated-pyramid cabinet. THAT would make a statement, no doubt! Maybe we could make the pyramid in two parts- a base section for the one or two 2235s per side, and a midbass/mid/UHF section, made to "interlock" together, one on top of the other, continuing the pyramid shape and dimensions? That'd certainly make it easier to transport (you could probably send the sections by UPS, even) and possibly better sounding as well (isolated woofer and midbass cabinets, totally)...



Well, this puts me in the position to quit lurking on this thread.

I had a similar idea in mind to what GordonW mentioned here. I had tossed out some ideas, but the idea sorta died out since I didn't really even know what questions to ask. I had hoped to lurk about on this project and glean a few scraps of information regarding speaker design yet not have to bother the guys here with yet more stupid questions.

This raises the point of my participation....I can't imagine what I could offer other than a few sheckles and stupid questions. My level of expertise in speaker design is nil, my woodworking skills are good enough for me but laughable compared to those I've seen here, and I have no spare parts whatsoever.

As for the secret advisors, trust me when I say you guys could drop hints until the cows come home and I wouldn't have a clue as to the identity of said advisors. They would remain secret to me unless you published their bio on the web, honest.

So if I pass muster, I'd be delighted to watch this project unfold. If not, there is always lurking and stupid questions.

Alex Lancaster
11-28-2003, 06:18 PM
Don:

I´ve been reading this thread, have not posted because I have nothing meaningful to; I would like to be able to see the new thread, can You sign me up?

Thanks, Alex.

Don C
11-28-2003, 06:26 PM
I'd like to at least follow the progress as well, so give me access please.

Don McRitchie
11-28-2003, 06:27 PM
Done.

Guido
12-01-2003, 04:43 AM
I did some research and fiddling around to integrate the 2012 in my 4343 environment.
As I think the 2012 is still in the discussion maybe I can help at least a bit?
Nice project, let me participate.:cool:

Figge
07-19-2004, 09:31 AM
now this got me curious! so what happend? is it finished?

PSz.
08-03-2004, 10:01 PM
I see that there is a "secret bat cave" forum. Hmmmm...
Maybe if I knock someone will let me in to watch quietly?
:D

Knock, Knock... Anyone in there?
pleeeaaase...

hopefully,
PSz.

boputnam
08-03-2004, 10:29 PM
BOOO!!!

Walk around. Get a feel for the place.

No secrets, per se, only an intention to try and protect JBL propriety engineering on their latest hardware's all. Access granted to any who ask, far as I know... :thmbsup:

Robh3606
08-03-2004, 10:57 PM
Just ask Don for the key. You welcome to come in and kick some tires.

Rob:)

mcds
11-21-2004, 08:49 AM
Hi Don, Ive asked for access to the project forum but haven't received any feedback. What should I do?

Don McRitchie
11-21-2004, 10:53 PM
This is the first time I have seen a request from you. You should have access now.

luvvinvinyl
01-11-2005, 05:07 AM
I can't imagine what expertise I could offer, when compared to the luminaries working on this project, but i would love to follow along, please?

Don McRitchie
01-11-2005, 02:23 PM
Done

Andreaspaulsen
05-04-2005, 11:29 AM
Hi Don, All

Being a chemical engineer, I cannot offer serious discussion compared to some of the senior members here- however I own a few jbl related items (2245, 2226, 2118 etc) and does a bit diy, therefore I would like to access the project may forums.
Can that be arranged?

Cheers
andreas

Don McRitchie
05-06-2005, 12:06 PM
Done as well.

glen
05-11-2005, 03:27 PM
Hi Don & everybody,

Thought I would throw out an idea for the enclosure. Not rendered as nice as your current concept on the Project May page. Based on a design I was working on for my own BIG speakers. I intended the upper half to include the horn as well a 15 so the volume of the two halves were about the same. The front surfaces (with grilles) are rounded, being two conical sections, they have a smaller radius in the center that matches the horn, and a larger radius at the top & bottom. The elliptical section of the baffle behind the grilles is a flat and vertical. I wanted the ports on the front so I could back them right up against the wall. About five and a half feet tall, about 42 inches to the center of the midrange horn.

Maybe this is interesting enough to get me access to the Project May forums?

Thanks,

Glen

Mr. Widget
05-11-2005, 03:30 PM
That's cool... not that a cool addition is required for admittance. Send Don a PM and he'll get you started. You'll find a month's reading ahead. Too bad you didn't pop in earlier.

Widget

linear
05-11-2005, 04:29 PM
I would also love to be able to follow the latest info on the project. You already have many "heavy-hitter" contributors, but I'll do my best to offer something of value!http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/smile.gif

Regards,

Linear

Rudy Kleimann
10-21-2005, 12:05 AM
Well...
Like others, I too have read all the way through this to learn through observation, only speaking if I really had something to contribute. Hate to miss out on all the fun and education along the way...

May I gain entry to the hallowed halls?

I promise to keep my mouth shut and my presence benign. I don't have much to offer, particularly at thids late date (isn't the target delivery date May '05?)

Except my 2352 horn, 2509A stand, and 2447H driver. The rest of my JBL Pro stuff is inappropriate, save the 2012H's and 2405H's I just bought (and you guys have long since procured). My 4311WXA's and L166's are ***way,way*** below/behind this project.

I'd love to learn from your efforts, discussions, and research. Maybe my little *pet project* 4638/2012H/2447H+2352/2405H project PA setup will benefit from this incredible pool of knowledge and experience?

Besides, I'm dying to hear the individual and collective responses to this... creature...

morbo!
10-23-2005, 10:46 AM
unless u got a very expensive and rare set of dali`s u should be ashamed
and glen that does look good

jpb_dk
01-29-2006, 11:51 AM
Hi Guys,
I have send a request for login to the project forum, but still "no cigar"..
I LIKE TO JOIN IN..
Background, electronic engeneer, done several dsp-speaker projects with build in amps..
Thanks
Jens

Mr. Widget
01-29-2006, 12:53 PM
Don has the keys to the castle... he has been MIA. Hopefully he will respond to your request and get you set up.

The project has been on hold for several months while we worked out who would do the final construction. I believe we have it worked out as a team effort and will begin actual construction in a couple of months as we are waiting on one team member to complete his new shop.

To all that have watched this project and those who have contributed... sorry for the delays, but it has grown into quite an impressive project and a monumental task from those tiny seeds that Mike originally planted. We believe the wait will have been worth it.

Widget

matsj
04-02-2006, 06:47 AM
How is it going with the project ??????? is it dead ? I have sendt 2 pm to Don to gain access but no answer :( .

mats

4313B
04-02-2006, 07:10 AM
Dormant as opposed to dead.

Mr. Widget
04-02-2006, 02:37 PM
Hopefully only dormant through the winter... with luck perhaps it will come back to life with the coming Spring.:)


Widget

hapy._.face
05-04-2006, 07:32 PM
...spring has sprung- how about an update? :bouncy:

Mr. Widget
05-04-2006, 07:38 PM
I don't know about the rest of the northern hemisphere, but it is still winter here.


I wonder if Spring has come to Ohio?;)


Widget

hapy._.face
05-04-2006, 07:43 PM
I don't know about the rest of the northern hemisphere, but it is still winter here.


I wonder if Spring has come to Ohio?;)


Widget

I dunno...looks like spring to me!

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=15279&stc=1&d=1146414413

John
06-04-2007, 01:50 PM
3-1/2 years and no end in site??? I might be out of the transportation bizz by the time this comes to a conclusion and will not be able to transport these to Don.:(

4313B
06-04-2007, 02:10 PM
In the spirit of keeping the peace, I'll not comment further for fear of going off on a rant about the whole thing in general as well as a few things specifically. :)

The pickup point will most likely be Chicago, IL.

Does that work for you?

John
06-05-2007, 12:40 AM
Not trying to break the peace but was wondering??? Maybe I will have to ask Don when I see him next time.

John
06-05-2007, 12:43 AM
The pickup point will most likely be Chicago, IL.

Does that work for you?

Chicago is ok with me.:)

Mr. Widget
06-05-2007, 12:50 AM
3-1/2 years and no end in site??? The end may not be in sight, but we have actually made quite a bit of progress over the last 3+ years... just not as much as any of us would like, especially during the last couple of years... it is simply not easy to fit in a "recreational" project of this magnitude while we have full time jobs, families, and other responsibilities. I am sorry that it has frustrated several Forum Members during this period... trust me, no one is more frustrated than those of us who have been most closely associated with the project... and Don himself I am sure, but rest assured it will be completed... it will be documented... and it will have been worth the wait.


Widget

Ian Mackenzie
06-05-2007, 03:30 AM
I can vouch for the frustration from the very beginning.

But perhaps it is more appropriate that you simply outline what you have accomplished to to date?

Infredible
06-07-2007, 01:06 AM
It's like wine... Time and patience gives the best...

Fred.

John
06-07-2007, 01:12 AM
It's like wine... Time and patience gives the best...

Fred.

Your joking. Right???:o:

4313B
06-07-2007, 06:02 AM
It's like wine... Time and patience gives the best...

Fred.Nice to see you around! :) I miss your posts! I drop in on your and samtastic's website occasionally and really enjoy it!

Your joking. Right???:o:I'm not real sure how much longer it is going to take.

It sure has taken a considerable turn from what Mike originally envisioned.

I'm thinking of something reasonably shippable; dimensions and weight that don't get too out of hand. Maybe around 100 lbs piece or lower??:rotfl::applaud: :rotfl:

moldyoldy
06-07-2007, 06:31 AM
Having spent nearly as long on a personal project due to hesitancy to commit to various details, I can only imagine how difficult it must be to finish one with multiple, competent sources of input and skill. While looking forward to the results, I can be confidently patient, knowing it will be worth the wait. :bouncy:

4313B
06-07-2007, 06:42 AM
Having spent nearly as long on a personal project due to hesitancy to commit to various details, I can only imagine how difficult it must be to finish one with multiple, competent sources of input and skill. While looking forward to the results, I can be confidently patient, knowing it will be worth the wait. :bouncy:There has been alot of pondering going on, especially in the area of the horn and compression driver.

moldyoldy
06-07-2007, 07:10 AM
I've no idea of the horn details, but saw the request to scan one to clone. I've had pretty good success cloning a couple of horns by pushing the bottom of a (double layer) trash bag through the throat (extending signifigantly beyond), then using expanding foam in the bag(s) to form a solid cast. Pour-foam is preferable to spray, as the expansion rate is known (so you don't overdo it), and higher densities can be achieved, resulting in a very durable casting to work with. Concerns of bag leakage can be reduced by first lining the horn with foil secured by painter's release tape. First test foam and bag for negative reactions of course.

For making 'glass replicas, I carefully cover the foam plug with foil and foil tape, then apply a coat of PVA mold release. Inefficient for production quantities, but great for a few. I suppose such a plug could be measured/modeled for use with other construction methods, easier, safer, and more accurately than working from the original.

I've no idea if this is applicable. If not....as R. Rosannadanna said...never mind.

Maron Horonzakz
06-08-2007, 08:29 AM
By the time they get done with that project, JBL will be out with Everest III:D

4313B
06-08-2007, 10:27 AM
Positive reinforcement removes days. :)

Negative reinforcement adds weeks. :(

sourceoneaudio
06-08-2007, 12:21 PM
Giskard,
Who is doing the cabinets?


Jeff
J/S-S1A :D

4313B
06-08-2007, 12:31 PM
I am now.

Due to my significant deliverable schedule I asked riessen if he would veneer them and he accepted. There was a point where I was seriously considering asking him to finish building the boxes too but he's pretty busy as well and that would also require more trips to and from Chicago. It would also require me to draw up the changes I've made and I just don't have time for that right now.

I'm also doing the networks and although I've done alot of work in that area I've somewhat lost interest since Don has a DEQX now.

Mr. Widget is doing the H9800/435Be/045Be horn modules. I also wanted to have someone do H4338/435Be horn modules with an upgrade path to the 476Be but I don't think that is going to happen. The K2-S9800 isn't upgradeable and I wanted to avoid that scenario with this Project. The H4338 seems to be a better match with the fifteens while the H9800 seems fine with the twelves and a slightly higher x-over frequency.

Maron Horonzakz
06-08-2007, 07:53 PM
I built a complete Paragon in 3 months thats including building the jig to form the curved panel,,Carving the legs & applying the finish....And with all you nurds you cant complete that project? What have you guys got to do with your time? Whats more important? Dont give me that excuse that your tired & the family pressures got you side tracked....The prioraties or to the mission...There is 24 hours in a day...You can rest when its done. What a bunch of wussies!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But Ill forgive you this time, We can blame it on W Bush:D

boputnam
06-08-2007, 09:55 PM
I built a complete Paragon in 3 months...Cool! But I don't know anyone that wants one.... :p


What a bunch of wussies!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Damn - you got me. But, best to leave me out of this.


We can blame it on W Bush:DEr, not this. His doings are certainly not audiophile...

Ian Mackenzie
06-08-2007, 10:45 PM
I built a complete Paragon in 3 months thats including building the jig to form the curved panel,,Carving the legs & applying the finish....And with all you nurds you cant complete that project? What have you guys got to do with your time? Whats more important? Dont give me that excuse that your tired & the family pressures got you side tracked....The prioraties or to the mission...There is 24 hours in a day...You can rest when its done. What a bunch of wussies!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But Ill forgive you this time, We can blame it on W Bush:D

Maron,

I am not sure if you were directly involved at some point or are an outsider. Building something yourself (as apposed to a team covering more than one nation) is a relatively simple exercise. Trust me.

To Widget,

The problem is so many have heard about it but too few know what has happened including myself. Many of us have put time, money and effort into that endeavour and as the case may be we may no longer be directly involved.

I think its reasonable for anyone to ask what is the state of play regardless of any ""issues"" and for you to respond with some facts and do it nicely.

Who is the Project manager these days?

Ian

Mr. Widget
06-08-2007, 11:40 PM
Maron,
I am not sure if you were directly involved at some point or are an outsider. Building something yourself (as apposed to a team covering more than one nation) is a relatively simple exercise. Trust me.Very true!


Who is the Project manager these days?I am not sure there ever was a project manager... I suppose Don has always been the de-facto PM.



I think its reasonable for anyone to ask what is the state of play regardless of any ""issues"" and for you to respond with some facts and do it nicely.The current state of Project May is exactly as Giskard and I have posted in this thread. I am waiting for the bass boxes to be finished to a rough level and then I can begin building the high frequency sub-chambers.

It is really as simple as what I said in post #115. We simply haven't had the extra bandwidth to "crank out" the system. I have agreed to complete the high frequency horn sections and will do my best to complete them in a timely manner, however I am quite behind on several other projects at present and I am glad that the woofer boxes are not yet ready for me, and I know that Giskard has been spread pretty thin too.

I realize that you and quite a few others have put in a fair amount of time and money toward the goal of building Don a truly awesome system. I have every expectation that we will... as for when we will complete it? I have no idea.

I hope that clarifies things for you...


Widget

Ian Mackenzie
06-09-2007, 01:05 AM
Thankyou.:)

My recollection was that Robert H. was holding the flag of PM (when I visited him in NY and was assisting at the time ... May 2004).

But that is now a long time ago for me.. :smthsail:

I know Don was fairly keen on that aspect of the project at the time and there were regular meetings but I am not sure what has transpired since.

But the fact that you guys have stayed entact and sailed through what has come and gone is a credit you all and to the cause!;)

Ian

Maron Horonzakz
06-09-2007, 07:15 AM
My post was not to get every body riled up or angry but to point out that if your going to have a "MAY" project and Post it here,,,then the interest becomes every ones concern....I know every one has there own personal lives to manage, but if you volinteered to do something it should then move forward.. If your job is large or small do it well or not at all. My post of building the Paragon was to show the time scale to start and finish a project by my self in a timely manner....Hell you have a dozen men working on this,,,How hard are you going to make it? Ive designed fighter planes and had them built faster than that.

Ian Mackenzie
06-09-2007, 07:53 AM
Ive designed fighter planes and had them built faster than that.

What, like in Flight of the Pheonix.

Maron, you are being very unfair and labouring the point is not going to change anything at this stage.

I am quite sure we have the best minds and hearts on the job.

Ian

Robh3606
06-09-2007, 08:00 AM
I was the PM with Ian helping out and we actually put some time into it like the first Project Team Ventrillo chats as an example. Things don't always workout the the way you plan them. The Project Team aspect just didn't work well, especially with people scattered all over the country. Right now it's with Widget and Giskard and there is no active PM going on. I really don't see the need as they are both more than capable of getting the job done.

Rob:)

Maron Horonzakz
06-09-2007, 08:57 AM
Rob...I understand your point and appreciate the answers....My comment was a wake up call...But to some may have sounded like a trumpet blast in the ear....I get the same reaction at the office when i want something done.;)

hjames
06-09-2007, 09:11 AM
My comment was a wake up call...But to some may have sounded like a trumpet blast in the ear....
I get the same reaction at the office when i want something done.

;)
Perhaps you have understood the difference between volunteers and your paid minions.

Another difference - I doubt the folks here work for you.

Donations are like tithing the church - once its left your hands you have no more to do with it.
Don't like how they do something? Then don't give them any more money!

Maron Horonzakz
06-09-2007, 09:26 AM
Then dont ask for donations.....:D

Uncle Paul
06-09-2007, 11:34 AM
Then dont ask for donations.....:D

Thanks for the reminder. I've been mostly lurking and occasionally posting. Making a small contribution to help pay for this site is a tremendous bargain for the wealth of knowledge available here.

I look forward to seeing the completed project, and am very appreciative off the details that have been posted.

Mr. Widget
06-09-2007, 04:06 PM
Then dont ask for donations.....:DI really shouldn't comment since I would assume it is obvious to everyone, but just to keep the record clear... the donations have all gone towards materials, the purchase of some specialized software to aid us in the design process, and on one occasion to pay a shop with a large CNC machine to cut out ribs for the project.

All of the work done by forum members whether building test boxes, building test networks, running tests of the components, testing the assemblies or the prototype system, drawing up designs in CAD, or creating design renderings have all been done on a voluntary basis with significant donations of personal time and in some cases also including material donations.



Widget

boputnam
06-11-2007, 10:35 AM
...if you volinteered to do something it should then move forward.. If your job is large or small do it well or not at all. ... Hell you have a dozen men working on this,,,How hard are you going to make it? The project was started, and at first moved very quickly and assuredly, predicated on a specified driver compliment and cabinet design. As with any choice, there are always alternatives and compromises presented. The best minds on this forum, supported by available literature and research, were involved. Proptotypes of networks and cabinets were efficiently, expertly and expeditiously produced. Regardless, unanticipated issues arose which ultimately required a couple of "back to the drawing board" rethinks - some of these were material. These coincided with a period of changed personnel availablity for both the team, and especially personally for the project beneficiary. This latter situation manifest as the predominant deferral of both decisions and work. It could not be avoided, nor rushed through, and so project expenditures were frozen for an extended period, and largely remain so. The project is slowed, but certainly not "dead" nor forgotten.


... the donations have all gone towards materials, the purchase of some specialized software to aid us in the design process, and on one occasion to pay a shop with a large CNC machine to cut out ribs for the project.Completely true. Hardcopy back-up is available for inspection. All purchases were approved by the team (I recused myself), and authorized by Don.


All of the work done by forum members ... (has) been done on a voluntary basis with significant donations of personal time and in some cases also including material donations.As well, there were extensive testing and listening tests involving many forum members from the bench, whose observations were fed back into the design process.

Maron, there has been much hard work and passion put into this. Regrettably, this has not met your timetable, nor approval. However, the project beneficiary, while certainly anxious to see the result, has not shared your view.

----- edit / add

It should be noted there were two iterations which were damned good and subject to extensive listening tests. These were far superior to most top-shelf commercial offerings, and employed no outboard EQ, and used passive networks. These were marvelous speakers! However, they were not "Best of Class", as was the team's goal.

The project has progressed and evolved, perhaps more than is readily obvious.

Maron Horonzakz
06-11-2007, 05:03 PM
Sorry for stirring up this fuss....But i reflect on a analogy here....The F22 Raptor took 17 years to develop,,,only a few are flying.... The P51 Mustang was developed in 6 months,, over 10 thousand were made. And we won that war....Lets hope your efforts produce a winner.;)

boputnam
06-11-2007, 05:19 PM
Lets hope your efforts produce a winner.;)Guaranteed! Thank goodness we don't have a war breathing down our backs...

merlin
06-12-2007, 02:26 AM
Who was responsible for electing the committee asigned with organising commitees to discuss departmental organisation issues and committees?

John
06-19-2007, 01:31 AM
Who was responsible for electing the committee asigned with organising commitees to discuss departmental organisation issues and committees?

:homer:

Maron Horonzakz
06-19-2007, 08:31 AM
The saying goes....A camel was developed by comittee;)

hjames
06-19-2007, 08:40 AM
The saying goes ...
a camel is a horse designed by committee;
-attributed to Vogue magazine, July 1958 and also to Sir Alec Issigonis.


A quote, properly quoted, is its own reward ...
- attributed to the Señorita (who cares naught for your flys)

That said - I'm much more interested in the Speaker project here than in any mumery or quipery from the recent posters ...

Maron Horonzakz
06-19-2007, 09:37 AM
Thank you senorita....Have you rode a camel? Quite an experience...Gets you above the flys.;)

Thom
06-19-2007, 02:46 PM
I guess it's how you look at it. They may not win beauty contests but they survive where no other mammal would.

neanderthal
07-14-2007, 01:11 PM
Just curious what is the latest on the speakers?Where are they?Who is in posession,and what is left til completion?

4313B
07-27-2007, 10:00 AM
Just curious what is the latest on the speakers?Where are they?Who is in posession,and what is left til completion?See Post #1 here -

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=9695

As far as I know we are still waiting for someone to come up with a system based on post number one.

grumpy
07-27-2007, 10:44 AM
I'm afraid I've lost the point of this Project, other than doing something nice for Don
(fine & dandy in and of itself)...

If it was also to share design considerations, construction and test methods,
aesthetic concerns, showcase JBL technology, etc... It's been a large black hole.
...so maybe that wasn't a goal and I should cork it?

What was once tantalizing, is now just annoying to be reminded of... too much drama,
not enough info. That said, I hope they turn out really nice and Don can enjoy them.

Robh3606
07-27-2007, 11:07 AM
If it was also to share design considerations, construction and test methods, aesthetic concerns, showcase JBL technology, etc... It's been a large black hole....so maybe that wasn't a goal and I should cork it?

Hello Grumpy

The meat is in a private forum that you could ask and get access too. I don't see you on the list. There is quite a bit of info in those threads. As far as the rest well it is what it is. They will be in Don's livingroom eventually. If you want in let me know.

Rob:)

grumpy
07-27-2007, 02:20 PM
Hi Rob,

Access would be great, thanks! Previous requests fell on the floor somewhere, I guess.
I'm probably also mangling the distinction between "Project May" and "The McRitchie Project Speaker"... separate access requests
or are they (as it appears) now one and the same?

Robh3606
07-27-2007, 04:30 PM
They are the same. I will give you permission to access the Forum.

Rob:)

matsj
07-28-2007, 05:09 AM
Is it possible for me too ? I have tried 2 times before and still not got an answer :blink:.

mats

Uncle Paul
07-29-2007, 03:01 PM
Same, here, if you would, please. I've also requested twice in the past with no response.

Maron Horonzakz
07-30-2007, 07:57 AM
An organization without a leader is just a mob.;)

mikebake
07-30-2007, 08:02 AM
What's wrong with a mob?

Maron Horonzakz
07-30-2007, 08:14 AM
With out a leader the mob will not get things done,,,The mob will hang the innocent...It seems to me a dictater is now needed....If you just shoot into the mob. the innocent will still get hurt....That crazy mob turned on me just because i pointed out the obvious.;)

mikebake
07-30-2007, 08:16 AM
Mobs get things done; you may not like what they get done, but they get things done, believe me......................
Matter of fact, there you go!
"The mob will hang the innocent..."
Sounds like the mob is getting something done!

Maron Horonzakz
07-30-2007, 08:25 AM
And right now they are pointing fingers at each other yelling "Who,s Next":D

Ian Mackenzie
07-30-2007, 03:26 PM
Hey Mike,

Rumour has it the Mob will be meeting in NY soon and someone is gonna get fired!

grumpy
07-31-2007, 04:00 PM
I will give you permission to access the Forum.

Thanks Rob! That was a hoot. :) Hope there's a windup/summary
when it's done. -grumpy

Doc Mark
11-02-2008, 03:23 PM
Greetings, All,

I, too, have asked for permission to see what has taken place in all this, but so far, I don't know if that was given, or not. I'd appreciate any help you can offer, as the reading I've done, so far, is outstanding. I'd love to see the why's and wherefore's of this entire project, beginning to end! Thanks, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

louped garouv
11-04-2008, 11:30 AM
keep up the good works fellas...

i know time seems to fly by from where i am seated...

it's amazing how quickly it gets to be three or five,
or even thirteen years later....