9849-8D Whats in them?

[garyl]

Slow poke dial up and my ignorance causes me to ask this.
There is a pair local, I know they have 12" LF drivers and HF Compression drivers and horns and a 1500Hz XO.

Does anyone know what LF driver these use? They appear different from my Model 15s that use the RCA drivers.

I would also love to know what horn and HF driver these have so I can make a quick decission.


Thanks

Gary

[spkrman57]

But pics would help define that answer.

Regards, Ron

[garyl]

Thanks Spkrman, They are 414s and apparently the #31 bent horn but still not sure what HF driver they used.
I did buy them, ebay, local pick up only and we are visiting family where they are in two weeks.
Guy claims they sound fantastic and have only a few minor cabinet blemishes.

Earl K is doing some research on the HF drivers if he can find anything about them.

I have been wanting to upgrade my gorgeous Model 15s with these components for a while now to see how they sound with better drivers.
Guess I will be able to do some swapping and switching and have two pairs to play around with.

Thanks again and any info you or anyone can find is greatly appreciated.

Gary

[spkrman57]

Which means the driver is probably a 806A (16 ohm).

Also the 414(Z ????) might also be a 16 ohm driver.

The 414 is a great midbass driver, but is low on the bottom octaves.

If you need more info PM me for ideas!

Hope this helps!

Ron

[garyl]

Here is the auction I won Ron,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&item=200002272757&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

Seller list these as being 8 Ohms.

I will be picking them up the weekend after next so will not have much more real info until I get them home and open them up.

Gary

[Mr. Widget]

Looks like you did just fine for $300. Those 414 woofers are really pretty nice, but I agree, if you like bass you may need to consider adding subs. Five of those with a pair of powerful subs would make an outstanding home theater system!


Widget

[garyl]

Thanks Mr. W. Interesting comments though!
I currently have a nice pair of Model 15s that have the RCA 12" Woofers with the foam surrounds. They are fine and have plenty of bass but I was thinking the 414s would just be a better woofer.

I have my HT set up with 19s in the front, 15s in the rear and an Altec shielded Center.
We are not much into HT movies but when something special comes along it sure sounds nice here.

Gary

[spkrman57]

I found with mine that the upper HF response was lower than with the same driver on a 811B.

Could be due to the 90 degree turn in the horn.

Good score!

Ron

[garyl]

You guys really know how to rub it in! LOL

I don't have a clue what to expect here.

My 15s are pretty and sound just fine and these are just about the same size box, same size horn, and same size woofer but two completely different animals.

I am truely hoping the 15s are a cheaped down version of the 9849 with RCA woofs and plastic bent horns Vs the 414s and metal 31s.
I still don't know which HF driver these might have so it could be a surprise, good or not so good.
I still have a hard time believing they stuck an 802-8G driver on the 15s junky plastic horns. This is the only HF driver I am familiar with since they are on my 19s also so I have no idea what to expect.

I can't believe I am about to say this but now I can't wait to go to my wifes family reunion:( . Please don't tell her the real reason I am excited.:D

[moldyoldy]

Hi, garyl,
Just because they're plastic doesn't make your Altec horns "junky", those horns are actually very fine performers, and offer the added advantage of not 'ringing' like their metal counterparts. They were designed bent to allow them to fit in standard depth cabs that wouldn't allow the installation of typical straight horns. The small-format bent metal version is considerably smaller, with a correspondingly higher cutoff frequency, and I believe was a carryover from W.E. product, and it won't be a satisfactory replacement in a model 15 at all.

I think you may have been misled regarding your RCA woofs in your 15s as well, which are also very fine performers. You said yourself they sound fine, don't be hungup on the brand name. Back in the days, RCA made several excellent drivers, more than one of which Altec used. Being an old fart, I can remember when most all RCA products were considered top-of-the-line. They helped pioneer the audio industry (and several others), along with W. E., Lansing Mfg., and later, Altec and JBL. The modern-day RCA bears little-to-no resemblance to its' former self, but then neither does Altec Lansing or to a lesser extent, JBL.

I've never A-B'd the RCA 12s with Altec 414s, but I believe that if the 414s would have worked better in the Model 15s, that's what Altec would have put in them. It's all in the application....

[Todd W. White]

The "RCA" on those woofers - is that stamped on the frame in ink, or is it marked that way on the cone itself?

Altec's recone kits for the Model 6, 8, 15, and some others start with "RCA"...

[garyl]

Great points Moldy and thank you for your info.

Yes, My 15s sound fine! Just being an Altec lover I always wondered if it wasn't dollars and sense that caused the use of the RCA woofers and plastic horns.
I call the plastic horns junky only because one of mine cracked at the base of the bend. Heavy driver installed on a bent horn and transported laying on their backs is not a good idea for these. Good old PC-7 epoxy has them better then new but it did turn me off on the plastic.

I will soon have the ability to do some testing and comparing of components that appear similar yet may be worlds appart.
Funny thing about us audio nuts, we are always looking to make a good design sound a bit better. I suspect Altec knew a bit more then many of us and I really hope my switching and swapping is nothing more then some weekend fun.

When I refoamed the RCAs, I have to admit, they are a well made speaker and every bit the quality of an Altec driver. Just wish they had used the accordion surrounds and black goo.

Gary

[Earl K]

Hi Guys

- Re; the horn in question,,, Sorry for any "model-number" confusion I may have caused .
- I might have started this persistent confusion by a PM exchange between Gary and myself ( can't remember without checking the exchange ).

Anyways ;
- It's obviously not a 31a type.
- From the included product sheet, the model 15 ( & the 9849-8D ) horn is clearly a variant on the 32a .

- Here's a .gif from a page of the 1948 W.E. "Sound Products Catalogue".
- ( There's other useful "old" info available for viewing at "hifilit" ("http://www.hifilit.com/[color=green) ) .

:)

[garyl]

The "RCA" on those woofers - is that stamped on the frame in ink, or is it marked that way on the cone itself?

Altec's recone kits for the Model 6, 8, 15, and some others start with "RCA"...

Actually Todd, there is no marking on the woofer at all except numbers on the back side of the cone. I got the RCA from info on Great Plains Audios site and they list the RCA as being used on a few speakers with 12" woofers.

Gary

[garyl]

Here is a photo of the plastic horn in my 15s.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/15Horn2.jpg


Here is what we are calling an RCA 12" Woofer from the 15s.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/15back.jpg

[Todd W. White]

I run the GPA website, so that's why I remembered the recone kit numbers beginning with "RCA".

Those are Altec woofers - not made by the Radio Corporation of America.

Bill can recone them, in most cases.

By the way - that HF driver looks an awful lot like and 802-8G series.

[garyl]

Great Todd, Now you had to go and do that! LOL

Guess the RCA designation just told us RCA made them. Another member said Bill H. had told him they were made by RCA.

Is it at all possible to find out what the Altec number of these woofers is so I could look for TS specs?

Yes, the HF drivers are 802-8Gs with Tangerine phase plugs that had come un-glued which is how I got them, needing foam and with what he said was blown tweeters.

Here they are with new grill cloth rather then the old foam.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/15grill3.jpg

and undressed

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/15done.jpg

Gary

[Earl K]

Hi Gary,

- Here's a jpg collage showing various bits of info that seem relevant .

- As I mentioned in my email the driver is designated by a simple part # of 23746 . This driver uses the 23744 diaphragm . This 8 ohm diaphragm succeeded the older 21597 type ( look at the parts chart to get an idea of the extensive use of that older part ) .
- What is a 23746 driver ? I don't really know . It might be a unlabelled 802-8G or it could be a 802-8E or even the rarely seen 806-8B .
- I've included the necessary info that should help you answer this question once you have possession of your acquisition. The 806-8B is a lighter weight driver in comparison to the 802-8E or 8G . So, you'll need to weigh your new drivers and remove the diaphragm ( if you are comfy with that ) for a solid ID .
- I don't know the differences between the 802-8E and the 8G . The older "E" may have the regular concentric phasing plug as opposed to the radial-type "Tangerine" ™ found the 802-8G .

- Hope your dialup doesn't cough on this pic. ( Also, you may of missed my post that IDed the 32a horns' origin ) .

:)

[garyl]

Thank you very much once again Earl! You are truely a wealth of great information.
As you mentioned, the only way of knowing exactly whats in them is to get them out and match them against the literature. It almost seems as though this falls under that old blanket statement "Specifications are subject to change without notice".
Another thing that always has to be considered is where these have been for their entire life and who might have changed what in them.

As with all of my Altecs, I am more concerned with whats inside of them matching each other so they mirror one another in performance. Many here have seen some of the butchering that goes on which allows a speaker to make sound but it does not necessarily make the proper sound as it was designed. A case in point is a buddy who bought a set of Valencias and found they looked identicle however, upon closer inspection, one 416 was an 8 ohm while the other was a 16 ohm version and both XOs are marked 8 ohm.

I will try to resurect this thread when I get the drivers out and post what I have found. It is absolutely wonderful to have the info I need to research my findings.
I make it a habit to not miss what info you post Earl and most of it goes directly into my speaker info file.

Thank you to all.

Gary

[garyl]

Speakers are home and look great. I still have some questions and here are a bunch of pics.

The woofs are 414-8Cs and look like new. I have not hooked them up yet but they appear to be perfect in every way so far. You know I just had to get inside to see what they contained first.

HF drivers are 23746 and the diaphrams are 23744s and in great shape.
I am still not sure if these are 802-E or 806-B models.
I have just a bathroom scale so accuracy with it is questionable but it shows these weigh 7 pounds. They do not have tangerines like my 802-8Gs. When measured they are 3 5/16" tall with rear cap in place.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Set55_02.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Set55_04.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Set58_01.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Set56_02.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Set56_01.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Set57_01.jpg

The cabinets are very nice and were hung on the wall. Probably would be perfect except the seller dragged them accross the floor and scratched up the bottoms. It appears they are designed to have the woofs on top and horns below, the exact opposite of my Model 15s & 19s.
I can't see where it would make any difference if I flip them except the bottoms would then be the tops and they have some nasty gouges in the veneer that are fresh.

Will let you know how they sound shortly.

Gary