help me fill out en5 cabs

[joe]

-just won a pair on ebay would like to know your views on what to use to fill them out.
-I have seen jbl's reccomendations in the library but you know not all that stuff is easy to source !
-the baffle is presently cut for 15" woofer -le5 , 375 etc , mid -077 tweet ...
2220's are fairly easy to source , thoughts ?
-375's ar not easy to source ! anyway I may want more action from the snare drum than the 375's are likely to provide like maybe a 2108 , also not easy to source.
-Yeah I know that I would need to make another front baffle for an 8" mid .

Maybe there is an easier away to do this , if you guys would simply list your preferences .

firstly you could mention preferences if cost and availability were no object
, up to four way

1 bass
2 midbass
3 mid /high
4 tweeter

secondly you could do a list same as the above but using components that are more easily sourced/ less expensive.

Thx for your consideration !

[Mr. Widget]

The 2235H is your best bet for a woofer for that box. Beyond that it's all up for grabs. As in most things generally the better JBL stuff costs more. With speakers it is so subjective, I just don't think it is really possible to make specific recommendations.

Good luck and have fun with them!

Widget

[joe]

I'll look out for 2235H !

ohhh I know that these things can be subjective and around here people can sometimes hold back a little , to avoid confrantation.

JBL reccomended the 2205 -2220 in a pamphlet on the pro site entitled
professional series low frequency enclosures .

It's in pdf.

I'm thinking that maybe the 2220 -2205 were what they had readily available at the time that booklet was published ?

There is no date on the pamphlet

[Zilch]

2235H didn't exist at the time, but you'll find the predecessor extended-bass woofers, LE15A and 136A, well represented in recommended loads for those cabinets here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78256&postcount=6

You were apparently looking at the pro sound reinforcement loads previously. These are the vintage hi-fi loads....

****

Personally, I think you're asking for unnecessary grief trying to do 4-way; more current 4" diaphragm compression drivers can do the job at a far better price than 375's. For that money, you can have SOTA JBL neodymium drivers with aquaplassed diaphragms....

****

077/2405's no panacea of a tweeter, either, in my book....

[joe]

Where might I come by a pair of 2235's ? jbl previously listed the 136 / 2231 as the reccomended woofer . Do You guys prefer the 2235 over the 2231 outright or just because it's more easily obtainable ?

I don't know what's goin on top yet zilcher !

[Zilch]

Here's the deal on 2235H's:

They are the improved, better driver.

They do occasionally show up on eBay, BUT their condition, particularly of the surrounds, will be unknown. Sometimes they've been refoamed by lazy idiots mounting the foam on the front of the cone rather than the rear, where it's supposed to go. It costs about $100 to refoam a pair.

They are still available new from JBL, BUT they are pricey.

SO, find a pair of 2225's on eBay, in need of recone (make sure the seller warrants that the magnets have not "slipped," i.e., the voice coil still moves freely and does not rub, and packs them well for shipping), then take them to your friendly authorized JBL Service Center for reconing using factory 2235H kits for ~$312 the pair.

The motors and baskets of 2225 and 2235 are identical.

That way, you get "as new" 2235H's to factory spec for about half the cost of new ones. :thmbsup:

[grumpy]

you've found a good deal on the 2234/5 recone then. Closer to $350/pr +tax
for the place I've used in the past (OCS) that's reasonably close. I'll need
four done pretty soon and value workmanship over price.
Any member recommendations for JBL authorized repair in the LA/OC SoCal
area would be appreciated (especially regarding recent recones). Thanks.

-grumpy

Edit: Thanks for the feedback! (sorry to steal the thread). My experience with OCS was
that they were adequate, not premium (they were the outfit that refoamed my L150A
drivers on the front a few years back... things may have changed by now ... as in
me knowing what to ask, with no small thanks to this forum). :)

[Zilch]

I'm quoting Audivex here in Berkeley.

Ti Dome has recommended Don Ramon down there.

I consider OCS the upscale gourmet reconer.

[I don't do organic, either.... :p ]

[Phil H]

. . . I'll need
four done pretty soon and value workmanship over price.
Any member recommendations for JBL authorized repair in the LA/OC SoCal
area would be appreciated (especially regarding recent recones). Thanks.

-grumpyI'll recommend Edgewound

[jbl]

Here's the deal on 2235H's:

They are the improved, better driver.

They do occasionally show up on eBay, BUT their condition, particularly of the surrounds, will be unknown. Sometimes they've been refoamed by lazy idiots mounting the foam on the front of the cone rather than the rear, where it's supposed to go. It costs about $100 to refoam a pair.

They are still available new from JBL, BUT they are pricey.

SO, find a pair of 2225's on eBay, in need of recone (make sure the seller warrants that the magnets have not "slipped," i.e., the voice coil still moves freely and does not rub, and packs them well for shipping), then take them to your friendly authorized JBL Service Center for reconing using factory 2235H kits for ~$312 the pair.

The motors and baskets of 2225 and 2235 are identical.

That way, you get "as new" 2235H's to factory spec for about half the cost of new ones. :thmbsup:
The 2235 is now $379 each from JBL !!! Sam Ash here in NYC can't discount much from that price saying that they are 'special order'. I do like the older line the 2235 is part of, mostly for its 4" voice coil as compared to the newer (2025, 2035) 3" coil.

[grumpy]

Edgewound. Check your PMs. -grumpy

[joe]

JBL , try and barter with them .... that might not be the best they can do .... whatever they told you . "my guy" quoted me a lower price than that . I've heard some scuttlebutt on the future availability of 2235's , might not be true...

Anybody ever read "The last of the mohicans " ?

[jbl]

Hi Joe,
Will do. The price of anything is whatever you can get for it. I NEVER would pay list price. Sam Ash is located on 48 th street here in manhattan. Across the street is Manny's Music. The problem is that they're both owned by Sam Ash. So much for competition. I'll look into the price of the 2235s.
Thanks to Zilch for his eariler post re the 4507/2235.

Ron

[4313B]

Anybody ever read "The last of the mohicans " ?Yeah, but it was along time ago and I forgot the ending.

[joe]

DONE ! The plans have changed ever so slightly but I believe I may get results that are well within design parameters for a rockin' pair of speakers .

step one: acquire en5 cabs
step two : acquire 4628b cabarets
step three : swap speakers/componentry into the "pretty" boxes , and retune the port for enclosure
step four: rotate volume knob to the extreme clockwise postion , DIME IT ! WFO !
step five : GRIN as in :D

[4313B]

That should pin you to the back wall.

I ran EN5's with S22 components for awhile.

They could hurt someone real bad.

[Zilch]

Yup, that'll work.

[You'll be wantin' a supplemental sub or two soon, tho, I betcha.... :p ]

[Mr. Widget]

DONE ! The plans have changed ever so slightly but I believe I may get results that are well within design parameters for a rockin' pair of speakers .

step one: acquire en5 cabs
step two : acquire 4628b cabarets
step three : swap speakers/componentry into the "pretty" boxes , and retune the port for enclosure
step four: rotate volume knob to the extreme clockwise postion , DIME IT ! WFO !
step five : GRIN as in :DNot Hi-Fi, but if loud and willing to take punishment is the goal you are on the right track! You may decide to add a sub if you like deep bass.


Widget

[joe]

No not hifi that's what the century's are for :D

So I can differentiate the klangfarbe of a delicate string quartet arrangement with the utmost clarity !

Yes klangfarbe goddamnit ! look it up !

No seriously I may do up a set of 250's some day if I still have
"the sickness" :blink:

[Zilch]

Alas, I don't know klangfarbe from a hole in the ground.

[I'll certainly listen for it, now, tho.... :p ]

[joe]

Do you know bullshit when you smell it ? :D

[joe]

These 2118's ain't doing much for me.

Part of the problem is probably the crappy amp I am driving the cabarets with but the 145's and the tweeters sound great !

The tweeters are intense ! had to roll the L pad all the way back .

The 145 will deliver bass unlimited in their useable range , they are very quick but not necesarilly as full as an aquaplassed cone . Anyway I like em !

I hooked up a graphic eq to get the things to sound loud without as much actual SPL . When this was done I noticed the following .

1 : the top 2 and bottom 2 faders acted just like volume knobs ! When I say "jump" the tweeters and woofers say "how high ? "

2: the 2118's just seem to be outgunned by the other drivers , they too would react when I slid the faders but not like the other drivers.

3: The 2118's always sound shadowed . No amount of messing with the eq will fix it you can only make tradeoffs .

4: I finally gave up on the 2118's and used only +1 db or so at 4k .

5: I'm hoping I'll find that one is out of phase .

6: I need a better amp .

7: If that don't do it I'll be looking for something else to replace the 2118's like maybe the 2108 , sadly they are all but unobtainable :(

[Zilch]

5: I'm hoping I'll find that one is out of phase.Kinda hard to trace through the jack switching in the schematic, but looks like BOTH 2118s supposed to be outta phase with the woofs and tweets in 4628B. :)

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Cabaret%20Series/4628B.pdf

[joe]

I was hoping one of the 2118's was out of phase with the other 2118 but that was not the case . oh well !

What size port should I use on a 4.5 cube box (subtracting .5 for the 2118 housing) with a 145 woofer ?

[Zilch]

BB6P suggests:

1 X 6" @ 6.88" = 33.87 Hz

or

2 X 4" @ 6.69" = 37.83 Hz

[joe]

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f75/skxe/cabaretV.jpg

~ 700 dollars later , TAH DAHHHHH ! the JBL Cabaret V .
I could have called it the jbl cabaret 4628b en5 , but that doesn't roll off the tongue now does it ?

There is no port tube yet , sounds good anyway ! the efficiency seems to have gone up a notch or so as well .

[Zilch]

Killer Kool!! :rockon1:

[How'd ya spend the $700?]

[joe]

Firstly I'm sorry for doubling up on te photos ! This is the 1st time I've put a photo on this site and I messed up , it won't happen again ! When I try to edit it I perform an "illegal action" somehow so I'll let it ride .

The bill goes something like this

4628b cabaret $500
EN5 cabs $100
gasoline , 3/4 mdf ,black satin paint ~ $100

Now when I went to the wal mart to pick up a new cd of van halens 1st album for these speaks I noticed that I could have gotten a COMPLETE SONY STEREO W/ CD PLAYER for 300 ! Oh well ! I'm a slow learner I guess :applaud:

[joe]

It's time for phase III I believe .

The sound of the 2118's improved in the new enclosures , but they are still being outdone by the other drivers and are a little shadowed on their own anyway.

The improvement may have come from the fact that I used 3/4 mdf for the subenclosure as opposed to 1/2 in the 4628b , or it could be because they are now mirror imaged , or both.

They still seem shadowed though and I think it may be a byproduct of the mids having to do too much work reproducing signals that are just below the cutoff freq . I think maybe if I used a higher order Xover on the bottom of the 2118 it may help clear them up slightly , go to more of a brick wall so to speak .

I'll let them roll out on top ,same as before ,that doesn't seem to be an issue.

The 2404's may benefit from the lighter , more sensitive diaphragm's used in the ??? as opposed to the heavy duty unit it now has . What is the part # of the diaphragm I'm looking for ? Anyway that's later on... gotta clean up the 2118's 1st .

[Zilch]

D16R2405. Don't worry about the "16." It's really an 8-Ohm diaphragm.

Compare the results I'm currently getting in VHF response in DIY Minis with "H-1" (top) vs. standard "H" with the lighter diaphragm (bottom).

See also Mr. Widget's study of them beginning here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=60872&postcount=5

[joe]

That's a very helpful comparison zilch. It does seem to confirm my suspicions that the lighter diaphragm will provide more air , which I like , and probably also cool it down a little . Coz the fram that's in it now is HOT , and that peak at 10k may be what's wearing at my eardrums .

If it sounds "cleaner" I'll do it . That's what it looks like to me. The one that's in it now screams like a banshee.

Many thanks to mr widget as well it was his post on the "lord of the rings " that caused me to start thinking about the light "hifi" diaphragm in the 1st place ! That is one of the best posts on that topic that I have read on this ,or any other forum,.

[Zilch]

The "H-1" response peak just above 10 kHz in my results may not be representative; it's not apparent in Mr. Widget's test results.

The "H" (2405 diaphragm) version does seem to have smoother response, and its HF extension is clearly demonstrated in both of our tests.... :thmbsup:

Presumably, the 2402 diaphragm in "H-1" is more rugged for SR use in 4628B (also 4612B). It's crossed lower in those systems than is recommended for the "H" version, but JBL now recommends the lighter 2405 diaphragm as replacement, even in those systems....