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Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 08:41 PM
Thanks to a thread over at AVS, I got the lowdown on close out prices on Northridge E Series speakers at Fry's Electronics. While there to pick up some electronics parts and to audition the Studio L Series and Venue Series, I couldn't resist the allure of $142.40 of for a pair E 50s, marked down from $499 retail.

I thought, if nothing else, they'd make a good dissection project. Inasmuch as most of us would not have the chance to see inside, here's a look at the complete package.

Accepting the probability of some gratuitous hooting and howling, I'll show all about these consumer speakers, with no editorializing. Here they are, exposed.

Well, first, not exposed. The box:

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 08:46 PM
The speakers are well protected with a solid, close fitting top and bottom insert. The enclosures themselves are also protected by soft foam "cloth" top and bottom. The grilles fit in their own slot.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 08:49 PM
Here's the back of the E 50. Two sets of binding posts for bi-wire or bi-amp use. There's the typical JBL model sticker.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 08:54 PM
From the front, here are the mirror image fronts.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 08:56 PM
From the back, the grilles have quite a matrix.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 08:58 PM
Simple black cloth and a shiny JBL badge make up the front. Too much flash, and the "JBL" is washed out.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 09:01 PM
From the front, the Ti tweeter and EOS WaveGuide. The WaveGuide material is hard to determine.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 09:09 PM
From the rear, it's clear the WaveGuide is plastic. The tweeter is held in place by a plastic strap and two screws.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 09:11 PM
With the strap removed, the driver's magnet is revealed.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 09:15 PM
Here's the midrange as it appears from the front.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 09:19 PM
The midrange driver actually has a trim ring around it. Once the ring is removed, the driver's front edge is quite bare.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 09:22 PM
Pulled from the enclosure, the rather large magnet is shielded. The frame is stamped. The trim ring and the hex screws are nearby.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 09:24 PM
Using the trim ring as a stand, here's a side view. The back of the cone is white.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 09:26 PM
Here's the 8" woofer from the front.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 09:29 PM
The woofer's magnet is hefty, and the frame is stamped. The trim ring is a part of the woofer frame.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 09:31 PM
Looking at the woofer from the side, the back of the ribbed cone is white.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 09:33 PM
The woofer has a rubber (or rubber-type) surround. It's attached to the front of the cone.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 09:35 PM
The midrange is housed in a dense plastic cup, stuffed with sound dampening material.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 09:37 PM
Looking inside, the midrange plastic enclosure and one of the FreeFlow ports are next to each other. There's sound dampening material on this side.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 09:41 PM
Across the baffle, the second FreeFlow port goes in the front like this and sticks out of the back of the baffle like that. There's no sound dampening material on this side.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 09:43 PM
The network is nestled in a nest of wires.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 09:50 PM
With a little contortion, here's a different view of the network, affording a peek at the far side of the board.

Titanium Dome
05-07-2006, 10:10 PM
With everything put back and the grille in place, here's a complete Northridge E 50. Now it's time to listen.

mikebake
05-08-2006, 05:16 PM
Now it's time to listen.
And?

skeptical1
05-08-2006, 05:39 PM
You Are an amazing person.

You have a curiosity with no end, and an apparent appreciation of everything.

rockecat
05-08-2006, 06:22 PM
I purchased a set of E-50's for my son for X-mas and broke them in with the old trusty Pioneer , at first I was very disappointed but after several hours they came in some and were much better. When I last visited my son we rocked out for a few hour's and they were like different speakers much more pronounced and with a surprising kick for their size.

moldyoldy
05-08-2006, 06:23 PM
And all this time I thought I might be alone as one who'd take something apart BEFORE trying it out.:screwy:

Titanium Dome
05-08-2006, 07:52 PM
And?
Hey, Mike.

I'll let them run for a couple of days, then give my impressions. I'm guessing they'll benefit from a little run in.

boputnam
05-08-2006, 08:22 PM
With everything put back and the grille in place, here's a complete Northridge E 50. Now it's time to...eBay!! :D

Dood! This is like CSI, except with no plot...

Ian Mackenzie
05-08-2006, 09:02 PM
Yawn

Dome, Is this supposed to be some sort of education or a review?

If the later why discuss a dated product that is not vintage unless you are appealing to close out shoppers? The new Studio L Series is far more intriguing and has alot more in common with the tradition of professional JBL studio monitors.(so say my brochure)

The larger models are 4 ways, use a Biradial uhf horn, and EOS Hf wave guide, case aluninium chassis 4 " mid and 6 " woofer with SFG.

I mean hello Dude, get with it! (Go takem back and show us some of the above, we want tell anyone you pullem apart:D )

At some point I may consider some of the Studio L Series for leisurely moments in front of the wide screen starting of with the LC2, then the L820's and L830 and L8400P while leaving the vintage stuff for hands on fun.

I will post some pics and impressions with the flux of time

Rudy Kleimann
05-08-2006, 09:25 PM
Using the trim ring as a stand, here's a side view. The back of the cone is white.

Is that aquaplas on the backside of that cone?
:D

Rudy Kleimann
05-08-2006, 09:30 PM
And all this time I thought I might be alone as one who'd take something apart BEFORE trying it out.:screwy:

Me too... Sometimes I only have something long enough to do one OR the other. It's a tough decision...;)

Titanium Dome
05-08-2006, 09:48 PM
(snip)

Accepting the probability of some gratuitous hooting and howling, I'll show all about these consumer speakers, with no editorializing. Here they are, exposed.

(snip)


Well, I guess I got what I expected.

That is indeed disappointing.

Rudy Kleimann
05-08-2006, 10:43 PM
Well, I guess I got what I expected.

That is indeed disappointing.

Don't let 'em thwart your efforts Ti. I enjoyed viewing it! It reminded me of myself.

You had fun too didn't you?

I apologize for the 'aquaplas' jab- I couldn't help it :o:

Zilch
05-09-2006, 01:58 AM
I, for one, have no clue what is in these retail systems, and appreciate Ti Dome dissecting one for us to see.

My only prior experience with this was replacing a tweeter in a HLS series center for a friend, in which instance I was surprised that so little substance could do the job.

[Of course, my only reason for being in there was that it had failed.... ;) ]

Note:

These L20T's just sold on eBay for $167, a bit more than the closeout price of the Northridge E50's plus tax. Despite these needing cabinet rehab, for essentially the same $$$ which would I rather purchase? :hmm:

JBLnsince1959
05-09-2006, 07:19 AM
I, for one, have no clue what is in these retail systems, and appreciate Ti Dome dissecting one for us to see.



Me too, Dome you keep doing what you're doing...some of us love it. :applaud:

Personally I like the old AND the new.......

anyway, I'm waiting on the "review" and how you think they sound...I may go out to the place that has them in KC and see if they have them on close out....

Thanks for the thread...

johnaec
05-09-2006, 07:25 AM
I also appreciate seeing the anatomy of JBL speakers. It seems the main border line between entry level consumer and "pro" consumer is whether they use cast frame speakers - at least that's where I've pretty much put the dividing line...

John

Hamilton
05-09-2006, 08:59 AM
http://www.trunkmonkeyad.com/3wmv.htm
I thought I had a good sense of humor, but I'm havin' real trouble getting this...unless, hopefully not, there was no humor intended. :mad:

hjames
05-09-2006, 10:32 AM
I thought I had a good sense of humor, but I'm havin' real trouble getting this...unless, hopefully not, there was no humor intended. :mad:
Its just a series of parody commercials -
someone showing off his video and editing skills ...
There are a series of them, the index is here -
http://www.trunkmonkeyad.com/index.htm

the funniest one is here - Theft Retrieval system ...
http://www.trunkmonkeyad.com/4qt.htm
the image of the monkey folding down the backseat and popping out to konk the car thief over the head while he is busy with the ignition switch ...
even the final image is pure payback ...

of course, I had my car stolen in late November, so I may see the humour differently ...

(and yes, I've since got the car back, fully rebuilt by the Honda dealer ...)

boputnam
05-09-2006, 01:54 PM
Well, I guess I got what I expected.

That is indeed disappointing.I'm not sure what that means, but come on, TiDome...

-----

- The speakers are well protected with a solid, close fitting top and bottom insert. The enclosures themselves are also protected by soft foam "cloth" top and bottom. The grilles fit in their own slot.

- There's the typical JBL model sticker.

- ...the grilles have quite a matrix. (my personal favorite)

- The network is nestled in a nest of wires. (but no detail of what is on that board)

-----

What did we learn? You dismantled an off-JBL cabinet, and posted a bunch of pictures of the process. The components don't have common JBL part numbers, it seems, so what value is this?

It's more like a blog man - posting whatever, whenever, for whomever. Those cabinets, even though JBL heritage, are about as far from what we do here as Bose. Even JBL didn't put their name on the packaging...

.

Zilch
05-09-2006, 02:19 PM
Those cabinets, even though JBL heritage, are about as far from what we do here as Bose. Even JBL didn't put their name on the packaging....That alone is important to know, isn't it?

Let's see what Studio series is made of, and the rest of them, too.... :(

Hamilton
05-09-2006, 02:31 PM
Its just a series of parody commercials - someone showing off his video and editing skills ...There are a series of them, the index is here - http://www.trunkmonkeyad.com/index.htm
Got it.

This morning I clicked on the play button but got nothing, now it's working. :banghead: Pretty clever ads, sorry Ian.

Ian Mackenzie
05-09-2006, 02:48 PM
Sorry Guys,

Wrong Thread,,I mean wrong forum.:rotfl: :wasnt-me:

Don C
05-09-2006, 03:14 PM
It's more like a blog man - posting whatever, whenever, for whomever.
We all know Ti's a post whore, but why wait till this thread to criticise. I liked this one.

louped garouv
05-09-2006, 03:54 PM
I can't recall seeing stamped frame JBL speakers before....

interesting, i guess


Widget's improveverywhere post was inspiring... :D

this was interesting tho'

mech986
05-09-2006, 04:02 PM
Hi TD,

I also appreciate your efforts in showing us what this Northridge speaker looks like from the outside in and inside out. With all the questions of what is better, vintage or new, its instructive how JBL has changed or evolved over the years. With different owners and administrative/marketing leadership, constant changes in the compromises inherent in designing loudspeakers become evident. Some of these changes you can see, some you can hear.

I think the engineers at JBL Consumer and Pro have a heck of a job to do when trying to create great products which must meet a specific marketplace niche and price point. Sometimes they do well, sometimes it doesn't work out. But they learn and evolve with ever changing marketplace.

For all you other folks out there looking in, imagine, if you will, doing this exercise every 5 years through the JBL consumer catalog. Pick a TOTL "statement" speaker, a mid-pricerange speaker, and an entry level model. Now photograph them, dissect them, and place some quality judgement on how they were built and what went into them. I think, with a few exceptions, we would have been deriding the entry level models as being poor substitutes for the big boys. Yet these particular speakers had to sound and look good to attract the young, not so well healed buyers who had no prior experience with JBL products.

I absolutely agree that sometime in the late 80's to early 90's production quality shifted as JBL products sometimes used Harmon affiliated drivers or specific offshore made components. That's just part of the globalized manufacturing for a large diversified and somewhat multinational company. It does mean that JBL can use all of Harmon's resources to engineer, manufacture, and bring to market cost effective products which enable JBL to survive and prosper. That's a whole lot better than the alternative outcomes that have plagued so many other audio names and manufacturers.

TD, keep asking questions and looking for the answers (or in this case, wielding the screwdriver/allen wrench, digital camera, and presenting your findings without editorializing). That's what makes it fun and interesting to be involved with JBL products and people. That's what keeps me coming back.

Regards,

Bart

glen
05-09-2006, 11:29 PM
I can't recall seeing stamped frame JBL speakers before....

At JBL Professional Nortridge they actually do install stamped frame woofers into their economy sound reinforcement series (JRX) which still represent a great value for the money.

I was surprised that more speaker makers have not returned to stamped frames. With the smaller, lighter neodymium magnet structures they may give adequate performance. But most manufacturers, including JBL, seem to be sticking with cast frames for their neodymium units.

And I found this thread very interesting, and applaud Dome's considerable effort in putting it together.

Thanks Dome!

Robh3606
05-10-2006, 07:22 AM
I was surprised that more speaker makers have not returned to stamped frames. With the smaller, lighter neodymium magnet structures they may give adequate performance. But most manufacturers, including JBL, seem to be sticking with cast frames for their neodymium units.


The cast frames have more mass and are better heatsinks. Heat is one thing that can give the new motors problems.

Rob:)

bone215
05-12-2006, 08:49 PM
I have S38s that I purchased refurbished as my first JBL speakers and have found them a very good value for money spent. I have been curious about how the E50s would compare. It appears the woofer and midrange are the same size although I don't know if they are the same speakers or not. The E50s have a 3/4 inch titanium dome tweeter while the S38s use a one inch titanium dome.
I always thought that both models were the consumer version of the LSR32 pro monitor.
The reviews that I have read on the S38s were positive with reviewers commenting on dynamics and clarity. They seemed surprised that the speakers sounded as good as they did. There are less reviews of the E50s but those I have read are also positive.
I appreciate the efforts to disect and look forward to listening impressions.
I think of the S38s and E50s as poor mans monitors.

Hoerninger
05-13-2006, 12:55 PM
... more speaker maker have not returned to stamped frames. With the smaller, lighter neodymium magnet structures they may give adequate performance ... with cast frames ... The italian speaker makers B&C consequently reduces the amount of material as you can see on the picture of a 15 inch driver. Other pictures are here as well
http://lautsprechershop.de/pa/index.htm?/pa/buc_tt.htm
(I have no experience with these speakers.)
____________
Regards
Peter

Rusnzha
05-13-2006, 09:58 PM
Originally written by bone215


I have S38s that I purchased refurbished as my first JBL speakers and have found them a very good value for money spent. I have been curious about how the E50s would compare. It appears the woofer and midrange are the same size although I don't know if they are the same speakers or not.
The woofers in the S38s have cast frames. They're not as masssive or as nice to look at as a 123A-3 or even a 117H, but they ain't stamped. The magnets are pretty big on them. I am trying to get hold of a digital camera. If I do and can figure out how to upload the pictures I will pull my speakers apart and post the results.

Titanium Dome
07-18-2006, 12:35 PM
I'm not sure what that means, but come on, TiDome...

(Snip)

-----

What did we learn? You dismantled an off-JBL cabinet, and posted a bunch of pictures of the process. The components don't have common JBL part numbers, it seems, so what value is this?

It's more like a blog man - posting whatever, whenever, for whomever. Those cabinets, even though JBL heritage, are about as far from what we do here as Bose. Even JBL didn't put their name on the packaging...



You raise some interesting points. Of course, I can only speak to what I learned, not you or anyone else. I even learned a couple of things that had nothing to do with the object at hand. ;)

Titanium Dome
07-18-2006, 12:55 PM
-----

- The speakers are well protected with a solid, close fitting top and bottom insert. The enclosures themselves are also protected by soft foam "cloth" top and bottom. The grilles fit in their own slot.


.

I remember opening my brand new L100 boxes in 1971 and marveling at the simple, yet effective packaging. I thought the boxes, the end pieces, and the inserts were remarkable in and of themselves.

Sure, I was a teenager and completely naive about packaging, but I thought how amazing it was the JBL had such a perfect way to protect the L100s. I would have added 50 pounds to the box if I had packed it using cruder, cheaper, generic materials and methods. The packaging is part of the "look and feel" experience.

I've opened a lot of JBL boxes since then and been gratified that the packaging has always been excellent. When I opened all those Performance Series boxes, I was impressed that JBL was still packaging the newer stuff to the qualities I expected.

I've also opened a lot of non JBL boxes, too. A lot of speakers are packed tightly in cabrboard boxes, with carbboard corners, or maybe there are small foam corner protectors, or whatever. I've had numerous crushed corners, cracked enclosures, snapped off pegs, broken grilles, etc. But NEVER in JBL original packaging.

When I got the E50s, JBL's entry-level, consumer grade product, I fully expected to see compromised packaging. My expectations were wrong, however, as I opened the box and there were the custom foam end caps, completely enveloping the tops and bottoms of the speakers. There was even cloth in there to protect the finish from marring. The carbboard itself was dual density corrugated board, not just cheap single ply, thin paper.

It was still the JBL unpacking experience, just as cool as with the Performance Series or the L100s 30+ years ago. So, what did I learn?

I learned that whether it's at the high end or consumer level, JBL still respects its customers and its products, packages the products well, and still delivers the JBL "look and feel" in the unpacking process.

Titanium Dome
07-18-2006, 01:13 PM
-----



- There's the typical JBL model sticker.



-----



.

Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. In this case, maybe it's worth a hundred or two.

I've always been fond of JBL badges and model stickers. Some people like foilcals or other things, but I like the badges and stickers. I'd have to say, I'm not that fond of the big plastic, orange Pro badges, but there have been a number of consumer badges over the years.

Even my SAT10s have decent badges on them, as small as they are.

Some companies have turned to screened or painted badges or even decals, or at least to plastic. Often the model number is just a decal, or a paper sticker. But here we see JBL still producing a real badge even on its low end line and using the same quality of model sticker as on all the others.

Again, small things, but part of the JBL experience.

Titanium Dome
07-18-2006, 01:23 PM
-----


- ...the grilles have quite a matrix. (my personal favorite)


-----


.

The matrix is a point of interest for several reasons.

First, the matrix is crucial for the shape of the grille and its stability. Rather than choosing an easy frame design that could have made do with a simpler, cheaper grille, JBL chose to do more.

Second the shape of the grille could have been flat, nearly two-dimensional, but JBL chose to have some depth and subtle character. The grille is far from a simple rectangle, and the subtle curves and rolls are better appreciated "in person."

Third, the slots in the side members allow wider dispersion.

Finally, since these are mirrored pairs, there are two octagon-shaped openings to allow the tweeters to project sound without the interference of the matrix itself. It's another thoughtful touch in the design and implementation.

Even at this level, design matters.

Titanium Dome
07-18-2006, 01:40 PM
-----


- The network is nestled in a nest of wires. (but no detail of what is on that board)

-----


.

It's a simple network, based on the SSP design. All the major components are visible, and the schematic is readily available here:

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/E50%20ts.pdf

Anyone who's really interested in more detail can easily find it. If you want me to take it out, I will.

boputnam
07-19-2006, 08:40 AM
It's more like a blog man - posting whatever, whenever, for whomever..

Steve Gonzales
07-19-2006, 09:19 AM
Me too, Dome you keep doing what you're doing...some of us love it. :applaud:

Personally I like the old AND the new.......



Thanks for the thread...


Thank you TiDome!. Nice thread. Keep up the good work, you never disappoint!. :applaud:

Titanium Dome
07-19-2006, 10:35 AM
.

..

Titanium Dome
07-19-2006, 11:23 AM
What did we learn? You dismantled an off-JBL cabinet, and posted a bunch of pictures of the process. The components don't have common JBL part numbers, it seems, so what value is this?

I learned that "common JBL parts" are not so common anymore, but everything seemed to have a JBL part number on it to me.


It's more like a blog man - posting whatever, whenever, for whomever. Those cabinets, even though JBL heritage, are about as far from what we do here as Bose. Even JBL didn't put their name on the packaging...

.

I'm not sure what you mean, but if you're saying JBL didn't put its name on the box, you're incorrect. The picture I posted doesn't show the logo, but it's there.

As far as the cabinets are concerned, the construction is first-rate: edges are clean, corners are sharp, bevels are uniform, fake woodgrain vinyl is perfect, speaker cutouts are routered (no cheap surface mounting), free-flow ports are incorporated, speaker attachments are quality, etc.

I don't have any Bose in my collection :no: , but I still have these. :yes:

boputnam
07-19-2006, 11:24 AM
..Clever! :applaud:
Just as useful as the rest of this thread...

Titanium Dome
07-19-2006, 11:29 AM
And?

I put these into service in my workshop/garage where the bulk of my collection is. I didn't compare them to any horn-based systems because I'm not interested in that comparison. I listened to them against my four-way systems, and the expected slaughter took place, particularly in the low end. My real objective was to compare them to some legacy two-way and three-way systems to see what was up.

I'll divide this into two parts so you can skip one (or both) if it covers something you're not interested in.

Audiobeer
07-19-2006, 11:37 AM
[quote=mech986]Hi TD,

I think the engineers at JBL Consumer and Pro have a heck of a job to do when trying to create great products which must meet a specific marketplace niche and price point. Sometimes they do well, sometimes it doesn't work out. But they learn and evolve with ever changing marketplace.

For all you other folks out there looking in, imagine, if you will, doing this exercise every 5 years through the JBL consumer catalog. Pick a TOTL "statement" speaker, a mid-pricerange speaker, and an entry level model. Now photograph them, dissect them, and place some quality judgement on how they were built and what went into them. I think, with a few exceptions, we would have been deriding the entry level models as being poor substitutes for the big boys. Yet these particular speakers had to sound and look good to attract the young, not so well healed buyers who had no prior experience with JBL products.

I absolutely agree that sometime in the late 80's to early 90's production quality shifted as JBL products sometimes used Harmon affiliated drivers or specific offshore made components. That's just part of the globalized manufacturing for a large diversified and somewhat multinational company. It does mean that JBL can use all of Harmon's resources to engineer, manufacture, and bring to market cost effective products which enable JBL to survive and prosper. That's a whole lot better than the alternative outcomes that have plagued so many other audio names and manufacturers.



I disagree strongly. There's a market for this stuff, no argument. But let's face it, a lot of of this stuff is crap. I put the entry level stuff JBL sells at the same level I put the Dell Computers. It's inferior construction material, out sourced to unfair labor, then shipped in boat loads to good old USA. Sure JBL gets to survive but at the expense of who.......there's not many people in the JBL shack making this stuff, thier jobs are gone. I have no complaints against the writer of this thread or the composer of the response that I used to make my whining comments.......but the bottom line is this shit is in a trash can 20 years from now. No ones collecting this stuff. Dollar for Dollar against Klipsch (Reinvented also) Altec (Great computor speakers) Pioneer, Marantz, oh yeah all the great big boys......JBL does quite well. They have put a little bit of fluff on thier new lines of crap. Keep in mind I'm not berating the quality of the higher end stuff. But what I am criticizing is the tip of the hat to globalization of good American products??? WTF is that? Bought a Dell lately......CRAP! Try calling JBL for service. :biting:

boputnam
07-19-2006, 11:50 AM
I don't have any Bose in my collection...Good for you.

Look - it's obviously silly of me to dissuade this level of "investigation". I tried to get us back to "LANSING HERITAGE" stuff two-months ago, right here, but you re-lighting this det cord after two quiet months shows this clearly is of value to you and some others.

I'm out.

(:applaud:)

Titanium Dome
07-19-2006, 11:57 AM
I've got three four-way systems set up for listening right now: L250, XPL200, and L7.

They're driven by a Hafler SX2600 (600W/ch) that is fed by a Fosgate Audionics FAP-T1 and the killer Panasonic DVD XP50.

With a Niles IPC-6 and ProCo switcher, it's easy for me to run these off the same system, and adding the E50 to it was a breeze. The ProCo allows me to instantaneously switch from speaker to speaker, and the ability to control the volume to each unit is icing on the cake. After reasonable efforts to calibrate them all to the same levels, the slaughter began.

Bass: by comparison, the E50 is dead in the water.
Midbass: the E50's midbass is solid, but still inferior since it's trying to work the lower registers, too
Midrange: sounds pretty good, practially as good as the LE5-11, almost as good as the 704G, not faring well against the 095Ti.
Highs: better than the 044-1, not as good as the 046Ti and 035Ti

Comment: Obviously the larger four-ways were going to be much better at the bottom end. The E50 couldn't match the midbass either, but the overall bass balance was pretty good and it was managed well by the enclosure's ported tuning.

The midrange played better than it looked, though to be fair the LE5-11 is long in the tooth and probably is underperforming compared to the newer driver. If you like the 095Ti midrange (I love it) then the E50's cheap driver is not able to compete. If you don't like Ti midranges, you might prefer the E50's $25 driver.

The thing that makes these comparisons to older four-ways worth doing is the tweeter. It clearly outperformed the 044-1. This was no contest, really. The 044-1 is aging, but even at its peak it was only good, not great. The larger 1" Ti tweeters had an advantage over the 3/4" Ti, but the difference was not as pronounced as I expected. Perhaps it's the effect of the EOS Waveguide, but the E50's highs were smoother and dispersed better. Even in the raw power department, that 3/4" driver could play very loud, though it got slightly shrill at very loud levels. The 1" drivers could go louder with no shrillness (to my ears), but they could not match the dispersion of the E50.

Titanium Dome
07-19-2006, 12:48 PM
Also in my bunker I've got some two-way and three-way speakers set up: original L100 Century speakers (in-line model), XPL160, L3, L60T, and LX300. (Uh-oh. L100s. Thank goodness Bo dropped out...)

These can be run off any number of systems, but in this case some of the ubiquitous Soundcraftsmen gear was called forth. I had two Pro Power Three amps bridged through the Pro Power Four Preamp, the T6200 tuner and the same Panasonic DVD XP50.

Bass/Midbass: The $30 E50 8" driver had a chance to perform against more appropriate competition, beating the 6" 406G in the LX300, beating the 8" 116H-1, pretty much equalling the 708G, better in some ways/worse in most others than the 10" 127H-1, and not able to touch the low end of the 123A-1.
Midrange: The two-ways that extract their mids from the woofers, were at a disadvantage, yet, the two-ways tended to do midrange better than bass. Still, only the 095Ti handily beat the E50's midrange. The old LE5-2 was more powerful, but that's not necessarily a virtue, and it's an old driver that doesn't measure as well as it did thirty plus years ago.
Highs: All had Ti tweeters except the L100, which fared the worst. Each of the other tweeters in turn had the inherent characteristics of their design, and the E50s EOS Waveguide gave it an edge over all but the 046Ti and 035 TiA.

Comment: The L100 is a dated design and a heritage product, though not one of the best. It does demonstrate that a quality cabinet and quality drivers can still be less than the sum of its parts. It had the edge in bass over the E50. it had a stronger but not better midrange sound, and the highs were inadequate by comparison. It is still one of my favorite speakers, but I am neither blind nor deaf to its challenges.

The XPL160 has the mids and highs I love, but the integration of the whole again leads to a speaker that is less than the sum of its parts. As a package, the E50 is better integrated and sounds more complete, notwithstanding that the XPL160 has killer midrange and deeper bass. It's obviously a better speaker in virtually every way, except in extended listening.

The L3 is a very nice two-way, and it holds up well. It would have been better as a three-way IMO, but it is what it is, and the advances in the E50 give it the edge, despite its less expensive nature.


The L60T looks good, sounds okay. I really can't listen to it very long without a sub. When played without a sub and compared to an E50, it just sounds flat and narrow. The E50 beat it in every way, unless one needs the nicer cabinetry of the L60T.

The lowly LX300 is more speaker than most would give credit to. It's actually similar to the E50 in its cabinetry, construction, and design (though rear ported), but it's older and it's a two-way. The 027Ti tweeter is delightful in this package, but there's no EOS Waveguide, and the 406G-2 does its job very well, but it can't match the output of both the 8" and 4" drivers in the E50. It certainly doesn't get the bass out. I paid much more for the pair of LX300s ($200 in '94) than the E50s. By comparison, the E50s were a steal, and they're much better speakers to boot.

Yes, there are a number of three-ways that are better than E50s. I didn't have my 240Tis set up, for example. However, this was an opportunity to see a newer, entry level consumer JBL product compared to some other consumer level products of the past. (Perhaps the XPL160 is out of its class here; it's not purely entry level consumer.)

boputnam
07-19-2006, 01:44 PM
(Uh-oh. L100s. Thank goodness Bo dropped out...)Not so fast, pardner!!

L1:) :bash:

Titanium Dome
07-19-2006, 02:04 PM
Ouch! I resemble that remark.

:blink:

JBLRaiser
08-16-2006, 08:42 PM
first inductee into the Lansing Heritage 'THREAD HALL OF FAME'. :applaud:

Titanium Dome
09-30-2006, 12:48 PM
I'd like to extend a warm welcome to the E50 owners from AVS who stop by:

What did I tell you? :p Everything you wanted to know, and then some.

Since you're here, feel free to join. :yes: There's a whole JBL world to explore.

SEAWOLF97
09-30-2006, 02:29 PM
China JBL ?

Titanium Dome
10-01-2006, 07:52 AM
The regular product ID sticker is vague:

JBL Incorporated
Northridge, California

However, there's a much smaller sticker on the back near the bottom that tells the tale. You can see it here: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111055&postcount=3 at the lower left, but it's hard to read. Here's what it says.

Designed and Engineered by JBL
Made in Mexico.

Until you asked, I didn't know.

Titanium Dome
03-10-2007, 12:52 PM
:bomb: Just added a review here:

http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/jbl/bookshelf-speakers/PRD_289350_4290_1761915crx.aspx

Trying to win an iPod Shuffle and a special, unnamed prize.