"The Widgets" update [Archive] - Lansing Heritage Forums

Wardsweb

05-08-2006, 08:00 AM

So what are you running in those? It looks like an Altec 511 horn and Altec LF, with 077 UHF. How do they sound?

John Altec 416-8C, 802-8G on a 511B horn and JBL 077. Haven't heard them yet, as I'm finishing up the crossovers this week: an Altec N501 circuit with the HF circuit from a JBL 3106. It took a while to get to his point, as I had to cut down the 511B to fit, recut for the woofer (original to small) and while I was at it, sprayed the interior of the cabinet with some dampening material. The sides are sand filled and the entire cabinet lined in fiberglass.

Zilch

05-08-2006, 11:27 AM

It's quite a pleasure seeing those cabinets in use.

I thunked 'em with my own knuckles when they were first made. :D

lfh

05-08-2006, 12:30 PM

A7 meets K2 kinda... :applaud:

Fredrik

Wardsweb

05-18-2006, 08:57 PM

Bass ports done, after much swapping and listening. Still need to install the crossovers and veneer, but for now listening is filling up my time.

http://wardsweb.org/misc/051806.jpg

Mr. Widget

05-18-2006, 09:37 PM

Still need to install the crossovers and veneer, but for now listening is filling up my time.I know just how you feel! The Widgets Mark II have been playing fantastic music and not getting veneered for months now... one of these days, I'm going to pull the drivers and finish them!:bouncy:

Widget

Rudy Kleimann

05-19-2006, 02:23 PM

Widget, are these the cabinets from a thread last year, the ones you posted pics of looking down into from the top with extensive plywood rib bracing?

If so, I bet all that Zilch got out of thunking 'em was sore knuckles:p . Those cabs are rock-solid!

Should be beautiful looking when Wardsweb finishes 'em... Pictures please!

Mr. Widget

05-19-2006, 05:35 PM

Widget, are these the cabinets from a thread last year, the ones you posted pics of looking down into from the top with extensive plywood rib bracing?

Those cabs are rock-solid!Yes, the very same pair.

Rock solid? Well sorta kinda... The pre-kerfed MDF I used to clad them turned out to have a resonance at 150Hz. I hope Wardseb's damping compound works out.

My Mark II version have an identical outward appearance but were constructed much like the Project Array Series with very thick slabs of MDF that I machined into the curved shape.

Should be beautiful looking when Wardsweb finishes 'em... Pictures please!I am sure that he will do a wonderful job. I too look forward to seeing those pics!

Widget

Wardsweb

05-19-2006, 06:22 PM

I hope I can live up to eveyone's expectations. I working on getting some sheets of sapele pommele that are wide enough so I only need one sheet per side. That way I don't have to seam except at the corners. Also, I plan on using some black something (plastic, lexan, plexi, metal) on the front two beveled edges. Something to setoff the face and accent the sides.

Wardsweb

11-05-2009, 09:14 PM

Holy Smokes its been a long time coming! I finally started veneering the "Widgets". I should have them finished in a week. Here is shot of the sides covered with sapele pommele.

http://wardsweb.org/misc/w31sm.jpg

and the face done in texture paint

http://wardsweb.org/misc/w32sm.jpg

I will post the entire process on my site when completed. It will include construction, modification, drives, crossover and veneering.

Audiobeer

11-05-2009, 09:39 PM

AS always it's a pleasure seeing how your projects turn out. Pure class! They are going to look fantastic! :)

Mr. Widget

11-05-2009, 11:04 PM

Wow! I had totally forgotten about that pair. Here is one from a pair that are complete with leather wrapped baffles, and birdseye maple. These were completed a couple of years back for a friend...

You don't need to feel bad about how long it's been though. My own pair are still in all of their unfinished glory just like they were in this pic from Winter 2006! Damn, no wonder my wife is pissed! I need to take them out to the shop and get some veneer on them!!!

Widget

Rudy Kleimann

11-05-2009, 11:31 PM

Love those wild-looking veneers!

Widget, I recognize those UHF drivers, but can't remember who made them. What are they?

What was the driver complement in this project?. Looks like a 2118 Mid. H or J? What were your crossover points and slopes?

Mr. Widget

11-05-2009, 11:36 PM

Widget, I recognize those UHF drivers, but can't remember who made them. What are they?

What was the driver complement in this project?. Looks like a 2118 Mid. H or J? What were your crossover points and slopes?None of the above. ;)

Luther has taken the Mk. I version and switched to Altecs with JBL Slots. For the Mk. II version I have gone with a compliment of TAD drivers and a JBL Sub1500 below coming in at ~50Hz.

Widget

BTW: I don't want to hijack this thread... I was just commiserating about how time seems to fly by.

RussinOhio

11-06-2009, 05:05 AM

... I was just commiserating about how time seems to fly by.

Indeed! It feels as if my 31st birthday happened last year......but was actually 20 years ago. Whew!

On the "Widgets" in Wardsweb very first pic.....I just love how the horns have been integrated into the cabinet without the mounting flanges showing. Very nice.

Beautiful cabinet work.
You guys are truly master craftsmen:applaud:

Russ

Wardsweb

11-06-2009, 06:23 AM

Thanks guys and Widget don't worry about jumping in here. Its all about the journey that we share.

By the way, the final configuration of drivers is JBL 2235H LF, Altec 802-8G mounted to Altec 511B HF and JBL 077 slot UHF.

Wardsweb

11-06-2009, 06:32 AM

Here is how I tackled the resonance issue. The kerf is filled with glass beads finer than sand and capped with synthetic wood filler. I also sprayed the interior with automotive undercoating.

http://wardsweb.org/misc/w05sm.jpg

http://wardsweb.org/misc/w06sm.jpg

http://wardsweb.org/misc/w07sm.jpg

spkrman57

11-06-2009, 06:48 AM

Nice to see great speaker systems come to life and look beautiful also!

Regards, Ron

louped garouv

11-06-2009, 08:49 AM

Here is how I tackled the resonance issue. The kerf is filled with glass beads finer than sand and capped with synthetic wood filler. I also sprayed the interior with automotive undercoating.

nice!

Wardsweb

11-06-2009, 02:45 PM

Here is what I have up so far. I will add more as I complete the veneering and apply the high gloss finish.

http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/

Titanium Dome

11-06-2009, 07:09 PM

Nice job and pictorial. This is the kind of stuff I enjoy. :yes:

demon

11-07-2009, 03:51 AM

Here is what I have up so far. I will add more as I complete the veneering and apply the high gloss finish.

http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/

beautiful, thanks for the pics. i like the design of the speakers alot!
i also like the L26 btw., really enjoyed mine.

hope to read more about your speakers soon.
cheers,
mikey

ps: i would love to download your picture of the o77. is that possible? that would be great!
pps: cool motorcycle you got! :bouncy:

Wardsweb

11-07-2009, 06:05 AM

...snip... i would love to download your picture of the o77. is that possible? that would be great!
pps: cool motorcycle you got! :bouncy:

Not a problem. Click on the picture and the full size version will pop up. Right click on that picture and then click on "save pictures as" (actual save may differ depending on your browser).

pos

11-07-2009, 06:38 AM

http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/w14.jpg

demon

11-07-2009, 09:40 AM

statement: this is the most beautiful tweeter EVER!!
im stunned and stunned again by drivers that even look great on the backside.
(got the pic after updating my browser)

cheers,
mikey

Wardsweb

11-07-2009, 06:13 PM

Veneer is done. Time for sanding.

http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/w41.jpg

Krunchy

11-07-2009, 06:50 PM

Hello Wardsweb, the sapele looks gorgeous, cant wait to see it with a finish on, always one of my favorite woods. Speaking of finish, which route will you be taking, oil, lacquer or poly, (shellac)?

Mr. Widget, I loved the birds eye maple, another classic, those speakers are stuning, beautiful work!

Thanks guys!

Wardsweb

11-07-2009, 07:01 PM

Hello Wardsweb, the sapele looks gorgeous, cant wait to see it with a finish on, always one of my favorite woods. Speaking of finish, which route will you be taking, oil, lacquer or poly, (shellac)?

Thanks guys!

I am going to use Deft lacquer in a high gloss finish. I plan on finish sanding and buffing the final layer for an ultra high gloss.

allen mueller

11-08-2009, 04:52 AM

Wardsweb

11-08-2009, 06:45 AM

Great job, that veneer looks fantastic. I just finished veneering some 4435's that i'm restoring using the same method but went with with the factory walnut look. Did you find the iron method tough at all on the curved surfaces?

Allen

Not at all. I started at the center front and worked my way out and then back and forth working my way to the back. This after I first sprayed the sheets with Super-Soft 2™ Veneer Softener, pressed them between two very large solid wood doors for a couple days. This let most of the moisture wick into the butcher paper I had sandwiched the sheet in. What was left was a sheet that was more like leather than wood. It was very supple and easily made the curve. You can make very tight turns too, as the one sheet starts at the front of the speaker and makes a pretty tight turn about 2" in, then the gentle curve to the back of the cabinet.

JeffW

11-08-2009, 07:26 AM

I'd be interested in the construction details on those curved grills if you have anything handy or any tips.

Wardsweb

11-08-2009, 08:34 AM

I'd be interested in the construction details on those curved grills if you have anything handy or any tips.

The perf is steel, 22 gauge, 1/4" hex x 0.285" on staggered centers. This makes it 77% open area. It has good spring for holding itself in the cabinet. I bought it online at http://perf-plus.com/prod1.htm[/URL]. You can also find similar at [URL]http://mcnichols.com (http://www.perf-plus.com). I had them cut the sheet down for me.

The width is cut slightly larger than the opening to cause the bow in the metal. The grill cloth is held on with automotive trim I got from J.C. Whitney (http://www.jcwhitney.com/jcwhitney/product.jcw?search=yh890791&productId=2008663&skuId=235547&pageid=13&shopid=100001&_requestid=2605735)

Fred Sanford

11-08-2009, 08:39 AM

Here is what I have up so far. I will add more as I complete the veneering and apply the high gloss finish.

http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/

Great work, and thanks for sharing the pics & details.

je

P.S. Seeing the pictorial on Heather's Memorial ride really hit me hard, especially at this time of year- I'd only spent a couple of times with her before she passed, but she did have a real effect on me. She very simply refused to be pessimistic about people- everybody got the benefit of the doubt, and was treated immediately as a person with real value. A very good friend of mine was quite close to her, and her passing was a really difficult, yet intensely bonding time in our friendship. Thanks for the pics, and the kind words.

I never had the pleasure of knowing Heather, but from listening to the people at her cross,
I know I missed knowing a very special lady. She is well loved and will always be remembered.

Mr. Widget

11-08-2009, 11:01 AM

Not at all. I started at the center front and worked my way out and then back and forth working my way to the back. This after I first sprayed the sheets with Super-Soft 2™ Veneer Softener, pressed them between two very large solid wood doors for a couple days. This let most of the moisture wick into the butcher paper I had sandwiched the sheet in. What was left was a sheet that was more like leather than wood. It was very supple and easily made the curve. You can make very tight turns too, as the one sheet starts at the front of the speaker and makes a pretty tight turn about 2" in, then the gentle curve to the back of the cabinet.I thought I'd compare veneer techniques.

I approached veneering my Mark II cabinets a bit differently. There are many ways to skin a speaker. :D Before I tackled the sides I approached the tops. Since the sides are butted to the tops, this is true for both the original version that Luther has as well as the Mark II version that I have and I have veneered, I was concerned that the sides will likely expand and contract at different rates than the tops causing surface issues that could telegraph through to the top. To avoid this I crossbanded the tops with 1/16" maple veneer. Crossbanding is when you put a preliminary veneer layer with it's grain running perpendicularly to the facing veneer. I did this by rolling on white glue and clamping the hell out of it with a dozen or so pipe clamps and using a platen board and carefully placed battens. I trimmed this crossband veneer layer and then tackled the sides. For the sides, I placed the veneer in my vacuum bag veneer press and bonded it to 1/8" bending poplar. I then took the poplar and glued it to the curved sides of the speakers with battens and band clamps. The back of the speaker was veneered using a platen board and then band clams. The front beveled edges and the 5/16" returns on each side of the baffle were veneered using contact cement. After trimming and sanding all of the vertical faces I veneered the tops with the face grade veneer. I used the same technique as I had with the crossband layer.

Yep, lots of words and an even greater amount of time and effort, but the result is perfect and still looks as new almost three years later. For the finish, I fully prepped the the cabinets, sanded them out completely and filled any slight imperfections. My friend who I built these for had requested a specific finish he had seen elsewhere. It is a type of clear coat called conversion varnish... fairly toxic, but very nice looking on tight grained woods and is damned near bullet proof. I took the speaker cabinets to a professional finisher and had them sprayed with a satin conversion varnish. I might have done the spray work myself, but his work was exemplary and I didn't feel like learning how a new material behaves after spending that much effort and over $1000 on the veneer.

Widget

BMWCCA

11-08-2009, 11:18 AM

P.S. Seeing the pictorial on Heather's Memorial ride really hit me hard, especially at this time of year- I'd only spent a couple of times with her before she passed, but she did have a real effect on me. She very simply refused to be pessimistic about people- everybody got the benefit of the doubt, and was treated immediately as a person with real value. A very good friend of mine was quite close to her, and her passing was a really difficult, yet intensely bonding time in our friendship. Thanks for the pics, and the kind words.
:blink: In case anyone else has a hard a time putting that reference in perspective, given the eponymous nature of the link and one member here by that name who also rides, I believe this is the memorial to which Fred refers: http://wardsweb.org/busa/heather.html

I believe our own Heather (hjames) is alive and well but I'll let her speak for herself.

Fred Sanford

11-08-2009, 02:46 PM

:blink: In case anyone else has a hard a time putting that reference in perspective, given the eponymous nature of the link and one member here by that name who also rides, I believe this is the memorial to which Fred refers: http://wardsweb.org/busa/heather.html

I believe our own Heather (hjames) is alive and well but I'll let her speak for herself.

Sorry, I wasn't thinking of that connection- yes, my reference was to Heather Howard. You'd all have liked her, the day I met her we went to see Les Paul at Fat Tuesday's, among other fun NYC sites. Damn shame, a real loss.

Sorry also for taking the thread on a tangent.

je

Wardsweb

11-14-2009, 07:33 PM

Mr. Widget

11-14-2009, 10:05 PM

Here is what I got done today. They speakers are sanded and the first cost of DEFT lacquer finish is on. The first coat always soaks in. I will sand and coat, sand and coat a few times to build up the finish and then sand and buff to get the mirror gloss shine.They are looking very nice! :bouncy:

Do you brush or spray the DEFT? From your post I am guessing you are not using a lacquer sanding sealer. Typically how many coats does it take to completely fill a medium tight grained wood so that you can polish it out to a "piano" high gloss finish?

Widget

Wardsweb

11-15-2009, 09:03 AM

They are looking very nice! :bouncy:

Do you brush or spray the DEFT? From your post I am guessing you are not using a lacquer sanding sealer. Typically how many coats does it take to completely fill a medium tight grained wood so that you can polish it out to a "piano" high gloss finish?

Widget

In the past, I've always sprayed the DEFT. This time around I decided to try the brush on because I knew I wanted it thick. Spraying it takes a lot of coats to build it up. So far the first coat of gloss (clear in the can, semi-gloss looks milky) almost totally soaked in. The second coat is close to filling and I expect the third to level it out.

Now being lacquer it works better when the temperature is 70+ and best when it is 80+. I've tried to do projects in the summer here because the finish is easier to acheive. Drying slower in cooler temps yields a bit of orange peel that has to be sanded out. Not a real issue when I've done semi-gloss finishes. Even the white scotch brite pads can buff the surface smooth. I knew the gloss finish would take a lot more prep. It is very similar to painting a car. I even plan to use automotive 3M 06068, Perfect It Ultrafine Machine Polish, for the final polish, after block sanding to 1000 or 1500.

Yes I know a lot of work, but I'm kind of trying an old school approach to see how it does. It would have been a lot easier to take them to my buddy's body shop and just shoot them in clear urethane, but lugging these lead bricks around isn't easy. The lacquer I can do in my garage. The nice thing about lacquer is it is very forgiving. If you mess up, drip or get something in the finish, some 220 and a sanding block takes it right out. The next coat actually melts into the previous and you continue working.

Rudy Kleimann

11-15-2009, 10:56 AM

You could save yourself some time and effort by using a sanding sealer before laying down the varnish. The product is clear and usually seals in one coat, allowing the buildup coats to proceed with the first application instead of drinking into the wood over and over... works wonders on mahogany boats!

Wardsweb

11-15-2009, 12:35 PM

Thanksy Rudy, I'll have to think of that next time.

Here is what I have with three coats on. Starting to look good and will only get better. The sunlight helps to show the actual color of the sapele.

http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/w45.jpg

Wardsweb

11-15-2009, 12:36 PM

Here is a nice shot of a top.

http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/w44.jpg

Rudy Kleimann

11-15-2009, 01:25 PM

Love that wood!:applaud: The stain is really nice -perfect color IMO.

Maybe I'll get to see 'em up close and personal soon
;)

lgvenable

11-15-2009, 04:31 PM

gorgeous

richluvsound

11-16-2009, 01:37 PM

inspirational work. :applaud:
Rich

Wardsweb

11-21-2009, 10:02 AM

I'm also turning some 3" x 2" billet feet for them.

http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/barfinished.jpg

Wardsweb

11-23-2009, 09:16 PM

DOG BITE! Some days are just aaarrrrrgggghhhh! I laid my speakers down to put on a last coat of finish. When I went to pick them up, they had stuck to the carpet. 14 hours and dry to the touch wasn't dry enough. Now I have to strip the sides to get the carpet out that is embedded and if that wasn't bad enough, a piece of veneer was pulled out. One more thing to repair. What's a guy to do? ~sigh~

http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/whyme.jpg

Mr. Widget

11-23-2009, 11:50 PM

:shock:

I hate that! Lacquer does take a very long time to really cure. I suppose the extreme mass of the speaker wasn't your friend either. :(

Widget

Wardsweb

11-24-2009, 05:34 AM

Yes it sucks, but can be fixed with some time and patience. In reality, it will only set me back a couple days. Needless to say, I won't be laying these things down anymore.

mikebake

11-24-2009, 07:03 AM

Just cover them in carpet and be done with it..........

badman

11-24-2009, 09:23 AM

That's terrible. You must now sit in the chair of shame. If I may suggest- mask the edges of the area to be repaired. No sense sliding a carpet fiber onto a portion with the 'good' finish!

Wardsweb

11-24-2009, 09:43 AM

If you have seen "UP", I now wear the cone of shame. On a bright note, the feet did turn out nice.

http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/bardone.jpg

Mr. Widget

11-24-2009, 10:26 AM

On a bright note, the feet did turn out nice.
Very nice!

Widget

Eaulive

11-24-2009, 12:29 PM

That is some awesome work, bravo! :applaud:

Wardsweb

11-24-2009, 07:47 PM

Mr. Widget

11-24-2009, 08:04 PM

Spray two more coats? I thought you were brushing it on...

Widget

Wardsweb

11-24-2009, 08:08 PM

Spray two more coats? I thought you were brushing it on...

Widget

You do pay attention. Yes I brush on 6-8 coats so it is really thick. The down side is it can be a bit wavy. So I block sand it down to glass smooth. I then spay a couple coats before doing a final sanding with some 600 grit. I then plan to polish them. First time at the polishing trick but it should work just like a car finish. This should give a lot of depth and a piano type finish.

scorpio

11-25-2009, 12:38 PM

Ok two hours of sanding and then just wiped them down with lacquer thinner. I'll let them dry for a day and then spray a couple more coats before final polishing. Even the patched came out very well. It is on the left speaker. Can you find it?

Sure glad you recovered those puppies, that was such a sad sight...

Those are beautiful, I really need to start learning to apply veneer, makes me so jealous.

I'm really looking forward to seeing your final result!

timc

11-25-2009, 12:51 PM

Thats one great rescue! Love your woodworking skills. Keep them pictures rolling :)

-Tim

JeffW

11-25-2009, 01:14 PM

That veneer looks 3D in the last pic, amazing.

SMKSoundPro

11-26-2009, 02:45 PM

Wow! Reading this thread from the beginning is quite a pleasurable ride through all of the efforts it takes to really produce something of substance.

Your speaker cabinets are just gorgeous and I am grateful that you shared this finishing process with us here at LH. I seem to be stuck in Walmart Black Exterior Semi-Gloss all of the time!

Please keep posting pictures of your incredible project and help us all to enjoy, at least, their look, as we may never be able to enjoy their inherent sound.

Happy Thanksgiving Day to all who celebrate it.

Scott.

Wardsweb

11-28-2009, 05:40 PM

FINALLY they are back playing in my living room. I was going to leave the grills off but you will notice the left dust cap is dented. That is compliments of our 6 year old grandson and his marshmellow gun. You can't leave kids alone for two minutes. :(

http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/livingroom112809a.jpg

My wife said she wants the full grills cut down so the big horn is showing. Sounds like a neat look. What do you guys think about a 3/4 grill?

http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/livingroom112809b.jpg

These have not been polished yet. I need to let them cure for a few weeks before I do that.

sonofagun

11-28-2009, 06:23 PM

How about a custom sculptured foam grille?

:applaud:

Mr. Widget

11-28-2009, 07:55 PM

My wife said she wants the full grills cut down so the big horn is showing. Sounds like a neat look. What do you guys think about a 3/4 grill?That's how I've always imagined them. :)

Though that is still far from my reality.

Widget
.

Wardsweb

11-28-2009, 08:01 PM

That's how I've always imagined them. :)

Though that is still far from my reality.

Widget
.

I hope I have done your great design justice. These would have never happened without you. Thank You!

Mr. Widget

11-28-2009, 08:09 PM

These would have never happened without you. Thank You!You are quite welcome, but they would never have looked so wonderful without all of your hard work!

From having seen some of your previous work, I expected to see them turn out well, but it is gratifying to see them turn out so magnificently!

Widget

Eaulive

11-28-2009, 08:13 PM

How about a custom sculptured foam grille?

:applaud:

Or some duct tape and rope for the grand kids :D

Seriously, that's why I always have the grilles on my L100 also, with two small kids in the house, no choice.

Aside from the dented dust cap, I can say that those look absolutely stunning, the finish is amazing!

sonofagun

11-28-2009, 08:26 PM

I'm being serious - I can help you design a sculptured grille that could be unique for your speaker design and give it a "signature" similiar to what was done for the L100 and others.

But no problem, if you're not interested.

BMWCCA

11-28-2009, 09:20 PM

FINALLY they are back playing in my living room. I was going to leave the grills off but you will notice the left dust cap is dented. That is compliments of our 6 year old grandson and his marshmellow gun. You can't leave kids alone for two minutes. :( Nothing a quick suck with the Hoover won't cure. BTDT. Well, actually my kids never did that (now 23, 20, and 15) but I did acquire several with that flaw.

cosmos

11-29-2009, 09:40 AM

FINALLY they are back playing in my living room.

These have not been polished yet. I need to let them cure for a few weeks before I do that.

WW, those are unbelievably beautiful. Truly an inspiration. Fantastic work.

I am curious. Did you use a binding agent with the glass beads (such as epoxy or fiberglass resin) or are they simply in the kerf cuts loose and capped with wood filler? I had planned on build something eerily similar, but planned on simply using bondo to fill the kerf cuts. Do you believe there to be an advantage?

Wardsweb

11-29-2009, 10:55 AM

WW, those are unbelievably beautiful. Truly an inspiration. Fantastic work.

I am curious. Did you use a binding agent with the glass beads (such as epoxy or fiberglass resin) or are they simply in the kerf cuts loose and capped with wood filler? I had planned on build something eerily similar, but planned on simply using bondo to fill the kerf cuts. Do you believe there to be an advantage?

They are loose, well as loose as can be considering they are finer than sand and in an enclosed space. I got the idea after building an isolation dampening sandbox for my turntable at the time. They glass beads absorb mechanical energy; i.e. dampening the cabinet. The cabinets are very dead.

macaroonie

11-29-2009, 01:20 PM

Wardsweb

11-29-2009, 02:51 PM

Here is a shot with my original full grills on.

http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/livingroom112909rightgrill.jpg

Doc Mark

11-29-2009, 05:34 PM

Hey, Ward,

Simply stunning work, Sir!! I don't remember ever seeing anything quite that lovely, back when I was in Odessa, my hometown!! 'Course, that was a very long time ago.... Your work is exceptional, Sir, and your having shared it with us, is a wonderful thing, indeed! Thanks, very much! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

Charles0322

11-29-2009, 07:33 PM

Wife is correct, horns showing!!! she has taste & you too, wow! :) if those things sound anywhere close to how they look :bouncy:

FINALLY they are back playing in my living room. I was going to leave the grills off but you will notice the left dust cap is dented. That is compliments of our 6 year old grandson and his marshmellow gun. You can't leave kids alone for two minutes. :(

http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/livingroom112809a.jpg

My wife said she wants the full grills cut down so the big horn is showing. Sounds like a neat look. What do you guys think about a 3/4 grill?

http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/livingroom112809b.jpg

These have not been polished yet. I need to let them cure for a few weeks before I do that.

SMKSoundPro

11-29-2009, 08:28 PM

WOW! Outstanding!

(I vote for the full grill, but who's asking?)

Great job, and Thank You for sharing these pictures.

Scotty.

ps. Did I miss it, where is/are the ports? Infinite Baffle?

Wardsweb

11-29-2009, 08:38 PM

WOW! Outstanding!

(I vote for the full grill, but who's asking?)

Great job, and Thank You for sharing these pictures.

Scotty.

ps. Did I miss it, where is/are the ports? Infinite Baffle?

Dual 4" ports in the rear

Robh3606

11-29-2009, 08:42 PM

Here is a link to an outfit on the other side of the pond ( Anaheim ) that do a huge selection of preformed curved panels.

Thanks for posting that!

Here is a shot with my original full grills on.

They look great!!

Rob:)

Chas

11-30-2009, 06:12 AM

Simply stunning, as for the grills, I can't decide. Both are great.:)

badman

11-30-2009, 10:08 AM

Here is a link to an outfit on the other side of the pond ( Anaheim ) that do a huge selection of preformed curved panels. Prices do not seem thay scary to me ,but then we pay £1.15 litre for gas.

Beautiful build on those speakers :applaud::applaud::applaud:

http://www.aitwood.com/StoreFront.Asp?WoodType=POPLAR&CATID=10&Section=QTRCYL&wDesc=Quarter Cylinders (90 degrees)

Yeppers. A fella could, say, get a half cylendar http://www.aitwood.com/StoreFront.Asp?ItemID=6200&wdesc=Half%20Cylinders%20(180%20degrees) (http://www.aitwood.com/StoreFront.Asp?ItemID=6200&wdesc=Half%20Cylinders%20%28180%20degrees%29), and some of these http://www.aitwood.com/StoreFront.Asp?ItemID=8600&wdesc=MDF%20Prefit%20(L)%20Quarter%20Rounds (http://www.aitwood.com/StoreFront.Asp?ItemID=8600&wdesc=MDF%20Prefit%20%28L%29%20Quarter%20Rounds)

and use them to make a cab that's all rounded but can be coupled to a flat face. Only problem is that you need to create a shape like a trapezoid laid on a semicircle, if you wish to do shelf bracing...... had to go with CNC work for that step.

Nice to have these guys so close, it's a 15 minute ride to their warehouse. Hopefully I can get the baffles done and have these running by Xmas. Enclosed volume is slightly shy of 5 ft ^3, which is pretty good for most 15"s tuned to 35-40 or, a relatively high sensitivity/wide bandwidth sub with a 123A/123A-3/2213. I'll be testing a variety of drivers, the JBLs are 2226H and 2213.

felixx

11-30-2009, 11:01 AM

Great work.
When you listen "serious" music go without grills.
Stay with them only for "protection".
Your speakers complete the living room colour.
Congratulations.

badman

11-30-2009, 04:40 PM

Dual 4" ports in the rear

ACK!!!!!!!!!!!1111111oneoneone

Test your port tuning wards, those are very close to the wall for vents. You may find that you are getting a lot of extra output around Fb.

What's great about this is that you can then stuff the box a little more, and line or lightly stuff the ports, and ditch some of the BR ripple.

louped garouv

11-30-2009, 04:52 PM

wow, excellent work....
i need to get on some projects so that with time/practice
i can also get away from black semi-gloss :o:

at least the grandchild is a good shot?
;)

badman

11-30-2009, 05:02 PM

wow, excellent work....
i need to get on some projects so that with time/practice
i can also get away from black semi-gloss :o:

at least the grandchild is a good shot?
;)

the nice thing about veneering is that when you do it with a nice quality veneer, you tend to force yourself to do a nicer job. "It's a shame to waste such nice wood....." whereas with paint it's "I can always re-coat it...."

Wardsweb

11-30-2009, 10:24 PM

ACK!!!!!!!!!!!1111111oneoneone

Test your port tuning wards, those are very close to the wall for vents. You may find that you are getting a lot of extra output around Fb.

What's great about this is that you can then stuff the box a little more, and line or lightly stuff the ports, and ditch some of the BR ripple.

Sorry but I have no way to test these. I tuned them by ear, so they sound like I want them to. I've been trying to get them to my audio engineering buddy at Klipsch so he can put them in their anechoic chamber and run some real tests on them.

badman

12-01-2009, 09:04 AM

Sorry but I have no way to test these. I tuned them by ear, so they sound like I want them to. I've been trying to get them to my audio engineering buddy at Klipsch so he can put them in their anechoic chamber and run some real tests on them.

Anechoic is going to make them appear bass- shy, most likely, but still a valuable test.

You don't have a ratshack SPL meter, or a frequency sweep CD? Some simple, inexpensive measuring tools can go a long way to making things click- there are many things that you don't notice until they're corrected. These are often perceived as "Something's off", and the measurements help pin this down.

Beautiful work. I tend to focus somewhat on potential problems, but that's just because I am interested to see that you get all you can out of a time consuming, expensive build.

6 year old grandchild... I take it you're retired? I've been impressed by your work for years, if you have kids out of the house and are on permvacation, that makes a lot more sense that you'd have the time to do the lovely finishing work you do. For whatever reason (perhaps the web stuff you do) I had the impression of you as a early 30s type of guy.

Wardsweb

12-01-2009, 10:39 AM

Anechoic is going to make them appear bass- shy, most likely, but still a valuable test.

You don't have a ratshack SPL meter, or a frequency sweep CD? Some simple, inexpensive measuring tools can go a long way to making things click- there are many things that you don't notice until they're corrected. These are often perceived as "Something's off", and the measurements help pin this down.

Beautiful work. I tend to focus somewhat on potential problems, but that's just because I am interested to see that you get all you can out of a time consuming, expensive build.

6 year old grandchild... I take it you're retired? I've been impressed by your work for years, if you have kids out of the house and are on permvacation, that makes a lot more sense that you'd have the time to do the lovely finishing work you do. For whatever reason (perhaps the web stuff you do) I had the impression of you as a early 30s type of guy.

I need to pickup some tools to help better dial these in then.

I am 51, so a few years before I can retire. The grandchild is from my wife's son from her first marriage. I have always looked younger than my years and obessive is my nature. Here is a pic taken about 6 months ago as I was headed out for a run.

badman

12-01-2009, 11:25 AM

Wow, impressive babyface, I'd have pegged you a decade younger.

Love your work, keep it up! But, I strongly STRONGLY suggest you acquire some basic measurement tools. A behringer DEQ2496 and mic can be had for <$400, and that gives you at least RTA functionality (which used correctly and interpreted right can be pretty powerful, it's what I use for most measures as I can do on-the-fly polars and refine the XO very rapidly). I know you're more of a guy who likes to do the build "to the 9s" and leave the theory for others, but some basic measures sure do make setup easier, and allow a level of refinement that's very difficult to achieve without them.

I'll give an example. I'd struggled with a pair of open baffles. They were excellent, went deep and were very clean, but the 12" to 3" crossover was a bear. Both were well-behaved drivers, but attempts to meld them took some doing. Without measurements, I'd never have been able to confirm that a trick I tried worked- specifically, use of absorbtion to form a pole on the woofer. Since the woofer's inductance (and thus phase shift) was active while it was still flat, adding more electrical poles for linear summation created textbook frequency response filters but not phase response.

Without the measurement, I'd have had a tough time controlling the filter acoustically, whereas with measures, I was able to get the crossover down to a high-pass cap for the midtweeter, a notch filter, and a little felt on a grille in front of the woofer, with excellent electrical and acoustic behavior.

Earl K

12-01-2009, 11:34 AM

Stunning looking speakers that you've got there, Wardsweb, :thmbsup:

Since I really like the "neo-medieval" look of 511 horns / I would make those 3/4 length speaker grills ( as wifey suggests ) . But that's just me .

<> cheers :)

Wardsweb

12-01-2009, 11:52 AM

Wow, impressive babyface, I'd have pegged you a decade younger.

Love your work, keep it up! But, I strongly STRONGLY suggest you acquire some basic measurement tools. A behringer DEQ2496 and mic can be had for <$400, and that gives you at least RTA functionality (which used correctly and interpreted right can be pretty powerful, it's what I use for most measures as I can do on-the-fly polars and refine the XO very rapidly). I know you're more of a guy who likes to do the build "to the 9s" and leave the theory for others, but some basic measures sure do make setup easier, and allow a level of refinement that's very difficult to achieve without them.

ZZounds has them for $300 including shipping, so looks good. I'm afraid it will be a while before it would make sense to me. Great tools are only part of the picture. Once you have the data you have to know what it means and what do with it. As you said, I have left theory to others. One, because I'm more of a hands on guy and two, with no formal training someone would need to explain it to me. I am an anomaly. Give me a schematic and I'll build a wicked amp or fix what's broke, but ask me to explain the time coefficient and I'm lost. Not that I don't want to learn, just haven't ever had a mentor to help. Are you for hire? :o:

Fangio

12-01-2009, 12:00 PM

Have to agree with Earl, on both counts btw, congratulations. To build up a piano glossy finish is quite difficult, hence seldom attempted here, and you were up to the task – they turned out gorgeous.

Certainly candidates for the "Project of the Year" award at LH. :)

mcds

12-02-2009, 01:58 AM

Candidates? Dead certs.

badman

12-02-2009, 10:26 AM

ZZounds has them for $300 including shipping, so looks good. I'm afraid it will be a while before it would make sense to me. Great tools are only part of the picture. Once you have the data you have to know what it means and what do with it. As you said, I have left theory to others. One, because I'm more of a hands on guy and two, with no formal training someone would need to explain it to me. I am an anomaly. Give me a schematic and I'll build a wicked amp or fix what's broke, but ask me to explain the time coefficient and I'm lost. Not that I don't want to learn, just haven't ever had a mentor to help. Are you for hire? :o:

While I've done my share of custom work and consulting, I don't wish to pursue that relationship here, though I think you're just being silly and friendly. However, I'd be more than happy to help you with whatever I can, including getting the DEQ up and running for basic measurements. The one in particular we're concerned with here is extremely easy to perform. Basically, you'd be testing for an in-room spike at around 40Hz using pink noise. The DEQ generates the test tone, feeds it through the system, and picks it up via the mic to display on-screen.

Let me know if you're interested in pursuing this. Heck, I have a 8024 (the older version) and extra mic, so if you want to get in "on the cheap" I'm sure we could work something out.

I really need to figure a way to spend a week or two in Texas, I have many friends and enemies I need to visit there. ;)

Wardsweb

12-09-2009, 10:44 AM

Widget - thought you might like to see the back of these. I filled in the original terminal block and moved it to a steel panel I added to hold the L-pads for the horns.

http://wardsweb.org/audio/Widgets/DIY3wayback.jpg

Mr. Widget

12-09-2009, 10:48 AM

Widget - thought you might like to see the back of these.It's a shame to put that up against a wall. :D

Widget

grumpy

12-09-2009, 11:52 AM

... seriously.

Eaulive

12-09-2009, 12:15 PM

They really look awesome from any angle :applaud:

Wardsweb

12-09-2009, 01:13 PM

It's a shame to put that up against a wall. :D

Widget

Well for an obsessive person like myself, the back is the only side not covered by a single sheet of veneer. You can see the seam about 1/3 down from the top. I tried to get a good match but I know its there. At least I only used two pieces and that allowed me to glue and then make the cutouts.

Eaulive

12-09-2009, 02:03 PM

AltecLansingFan

12-13-2009, 08:52 AM

ACK!!!!!!!!!!!1111111oneoneone

Test your port tuning wards, those are very close to the wall for vents. You may find that you are getting a lot of extra output around Fb.

What's great about this is that you can then stuff the box a little more, and line or lightly stuff the ports, and ditch some of the BR ripple.

You are right, 40 - 50 cm from the wall should be normal, when the ports are in the back. Just like JBL recommended for the K2-S9800

AltecLansingFan

12-13-2009, 09:00 AM

Well for an obsessive person like myself, the back is the only side not covered by a single sheet of veneer. You can see the seam about 1/3 down from the top. I tried to get a good match but I know its there. At least I only used two pieces and that allowed me to glue and then make the cutouts.

Very nice work, you did a great job! Congratulations!

Also the 2235H is, I think one of the best JBL woofers, a very good choice for these cabinets, I don't know the dimensions of the cabinets, but from the picture, they look a little to small for the 416-8C.