Clasic speaker shootout

[Gary Wolf]

Spent the day demoing these three classic speakers for a potential customer. Which would you choose?
JBL L300
Pioneer HPM 200
B&W 801 Matrix

[Mr. Widget]

Never heard the big Pioneer...

I'd probably go with the Matrix. You had 'em all there... what did you think?


Widget

[hapy._.face]

I'd only be guessing- but I'd say the 801 all the way (for me). I've heard them and they are very dynamic- yet they have all the qualities of a "modern" day high end speaker. I liked them. I can see why they are popular.

Keep us posted. Those are all quite nice!

The L300 will hold it's value for some time to come- probably increase, actually. I can't say that about the 801's.

[Titanium Dome]

No question in my mind. Newer, more technically advanced, metal dome tweeter, eats power, loved 'em the first time I heard them.

The others have some strengths, but the B&W is great sounding :bouncy: top to :bouncy: bottom.

[Gary Wolf]

The surprise is the big Pioneers. They were made in So. Calofornia for pioneer as an attack on speakers like the JBL L200/300 and the large Infinities, ect...very unique speaker an honest effort not just a copy of an L100....
Check the two high frequency drivers.

[Mr. Widget]

Oh, I remember them and even have a brochure on them in my files... I just don't remember ever hearing them. Sonically do you like them as well as the others though?


Widget

[Gary Wolf]

I guess the word is surprise... you would expect a fairly open sound with the 360 degree dispersion from the tweeter and supertweeter. and yes the sound is very out of the box much like the B&W. The bass is quite full and very well damped much like the old infinities of the time, no boxyness at all.
It was great having them all in the same room together for the last few months, even though I have owned the Pioneers for nearly twenty years I hadn't listened to them until about three months ago. I took them in on trade for a pair of Klipsch cornerhorns when we were a klipsch dealer and just put them in the wharehouse and there they sat.

[Mr. Widget]

I took a quick look at eBay to see if there had been any HPM 200s recently just for kicks... I'd expect the L300s get more cash... though the HPM 200 is a rare beast... I did see something I had forgotten about. The HPM 150. As I recall it came out a year later or so.


Widget

[Michael Smith]

My first question would have been , What gear did you audition them on?
I'd still like to know as does probably the rest of the crew
Regards
Michael

[Gary Wolf]

The Preamp I have been using for the last twenty years for evaluation is a Denon PRA 2000Z. It was part of their audiophile series in Japan and is an extreemely well designed and executed solid state preamp with a great phono section. It is setup right not with a Rotel power amp and a newer denon CD player, both hold their own but not up to the level of the preamp.
The preamp usually powers the Beveridge electrostatics that are sittinin the same room, they have their own amps.

[Mr. Widget]

I looked at the picture before I read the text and I was going to ask if that was a Beveridge... I never heard that design, but the tubular Model 3's were some of the first speakers that I ever heard that really stunned me.... they were so much more detailed and natural sounding than anything I had heard before.

Are the Beveridges your primary loudspeakers?


Widget

[Gary Wolf]

They were at my home until recent remodel.

[GordonW]

The HPM200s are good for a very good reason. They were designed by a team headed by Bart Locanthi... who left JBL in the early 1970s, to head up Pioneer's loudspeaker division.

Between about 1975 and 1981, there were some extremely impressive products from Pioneer in the HPM and S series, under the expertise of Locanthi. After Pioneer decided to become more "mass market" in the USA and discontinued the HPM and S series lines, these products became the genesis of the TAD pro-sound division (which still makes state-of-the-art speaker drivers and such) and the Executive high-end speaker line (which apparently still makes high-end products, for the Japanese domestic market).

I've done a refurbishment job on a pair of the HPM200s... and I have to say, that they are some of the most impressive speakers I've heard, from anywhere near that time. This may sound like heresy... but I'd take them, in a minute, over L200s or L300s... the HPM200s just have smoother sonic balance, tighter bass, and more open imaging soundstaging and imaging than the L200/L300, while giving quite good dynamics...

BTW: The Matrix 801 would be at the BOTTOM of the list for me. Just no control on the bottom, compared to the Pioneer or the L300. If it were a pair of Matrix 802s (dual 8" instead of the IMHO "sloppy" 12" bass driver), then it'd be a much harder decision to not choose them. The 802 was a simply fantastic speaker. Too bad B&W doesn't make anything THAT good, anymore...

Regards,
Gordon.

[messengerman]

Those Pioneers do look lovely.

I read somewhere else that the two 10" drivers have different surrounds. One being configured as a sub-woofer and the other a mid-driver. So a five way speaker then.

I doubt there are any of these in the UK but I have added them to my drool list anyway just in case. One mght turn up one day. :)

[GordonW]

Those Pioneers do look lovely.

I read somewhere else that the two 10" drivers have different surrounds. One being configured as a sub-woofer and the other a mid-driver. So a five way speaker then.



Same surround... just one of them has a mass ring (ala AR, etc) on the cone, making it a "sub woofer".

Both woofers go "all the way down" in bandwidth from the crossover, but the "subwoofer" has a lower low-pass frequency than the "midbass-woofer" 10". So, I guess you could call it a "4.5 way" speaker. :D

Regards,
Gordon.

[Tom Brennan]

I worked for B&W a few times and on many B&W units, there's no end of work repairing the cyclone burners in their big powerhouse boilers. The 4" waterwall tubes have no membrane and are very hard to weld but I always had good pictures, make sure you wire your wedges off when you spread the tubes or they'll shoot out and you'll need new choppers.

[Gary Wolf]

Gordon, Your comments about the HPM 200 is right on the nose. I feel like you do that they really advanced the state of the art in their day. I knew about Bart Laconti later exploits but I didn't connect him to the HPM 200.
By the way, I need some repair work on one of Barts amplifiers (SA 660).
Whom would you recommend.

[Gary Wolf]

The check for the Pioneer HPM 200's just arrived. So now to box them up and ship them out.
Just for kicks, anyone care to guess what they went for.

[hapy._.face]

The check for the Pioneer HPM 200's just arrived. So now to box them up and ship them out.
Just for kicks, anyone care to guess what they went for.

Wild ass guess: $1.5K I have no idea how close or far off I am- just a fun guess.

[Kenny Brant]

$1300:blink:

[hapy._.face]

$1300:blink:

:D What!? Is this "The Price is Right"!? OK- my bid is $1 Bob!

[Don C]

$700.00

[Gary Wolf]

I just told him $1000 and that was it. I think that was resonable, He already has a pair of Pioneer HPM 150.

[Kenny Brant]

I said $1300 because that is what a pair sold for on e-bay about 6 months ago. And they weren't in that great a shape. I bought mine about 3 years ago and all the woofers need refoamed. I bought them from the veterans administration store for $45. All the drivers work and the cabinet and grill cloth look really nice on them. ;)

[Gary Wolf]

Kenny,
do either of your midrange domes have a cover on them?

[Mr. Widget]

I bought mine about 3 years ago and all the woofers need refoamed. I bought them from the veterans administration store for $45. All the drivers work and the cabinet and grill cloth look really nice on them. ;)So how would you describe their sound? How would you compare them to other speakers that may be a bit less obscure?


Widget

[Kenny Brant]

I noticed the mids in the picture had protective covers over them, but mine do not. To me the speakers kind of sound like Ohm F's. The speakers don't jump out at you at first, you have to listen to them for awhile to appreciate them. One night late with all the lights turned off I was listening to a concert on a radio station with them and someone in the audience coughed and I swear to God it sounded like he was behind me:jawdrop: . It freaked me out and sent chills up my spine:eek: . And when I first got them I didn't think the tweeters or super tweeters were working so I took a empty toilet roll and listened to the tweeters and super tweeters and they were working.

[cubdog]

There is currently a pair of the Pioneers on ebay. Starting bid is $999. No bids yet.

cubdog

[Kenny Brant]

Real crappy looking too!

[doclamb]

Would have like to hear how a set of Altec Model 19's would have held up against those wonderful speakers.

[jim campbell]

given the rarity of classic jb's and parts,expertise etc,what other new speakers come close to the sound and fury of the l300 4343 4450 4435 etc,or is that another thread?

[L100t Owner]

The HPM200s are good for a very good reason. They were designed by a team headed by Bart Locanthi... who left JBL in the early 1970s, to head up Pioneer's loudspeaker division.

Between about 1975 and 1981, there were some extremely impressive products from Pioneer in the HPM and S series, under the expertise of Locanthi. After Pioneer decided to become more "mass market" in the USA and discontinued the HPM and S series lines, these products became the genesis of the TAD pro-sound division (which still makes state-of-the-art speaker drivers and such) and the Executive high-end speaker line (which apparently still makes high-end products, for the Japanese domestic market).

I've done a refurbishment job on a pair of the HPM200s... and I have to say, that they are some of the most impressive speakers I've heard, from anywhere near that time. This may sound like heresy... but I'd take them, in a minute, over L200s or L300s... the HPM200s just have smoother sonic balance, tighter bass, and more open imaging soundstaging and imaging than the L200/L300, while giving quite good dynamics...

BTW: The Matrix 801 would be at the BOTTOM of the list for me. Just no control on the bottom, compared to the Pioneer or the L300. If it were a pair of Matrix 802s (dual 8" instead of the IMHO "sloppy" 12" bass driver), then it'd be a much harder decision to not choose them. The 802 was a simply fantastic speaker. Too bad B&W doesn't make anything THAT good, anymore...

Regards,
Gordon.

I don't agree at all. I have been using K Horns for years which hav every tight bass. I just picked up a set of N801's and they are not sloppy at all. Just dynamic and awesome. Maybe teh amp that you were using wasn't up to par?

Chris

[jbl1975]

I´m the proud owner of a pair of L300's - have had 801 F, FS, matrix 2 and I'm not in any doubt JBL L300 is the only set of speakers that comes close to the magnificent sound of a Quad esl 63 with good subs attached. This is only an oppinion but never the less an observation from the cold dk....:bouncy: