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artsound
04-18-2006, 08:16 PM
Dear all,

I used to have some experience with L100 before. It is very diffirent to match with her. Got deep bass => noisy treble. Got smooth treble => not enough bass.

Now, I have changed to L200A, it is very huge and perfect loundspeaker. And I am considering about amplifier. I can build tube amplifier (DIY), so, could you, JBL lover, commend what kind of tube I shoud use? EL34? 300B? SE? PP? Or could you show me the way you passed when using L200A? Your feeling, your tips and tweaks...

Thanks for your attention and Very looking for your response,

Regards,

AS

speakerdave
04-19-2006, 08:56 AM
Hello, Artsound

Welcome to the forum!

Here is a copy of the brochure JBL published regarding that speaker:
http://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/home-speakers/1973-l200.htm

You will see that it recommends amplifier power between 10 and 150 watts. The choice would depend upon your listening habits--how loud, would be the primary question. I listen to a large 3-way JBL with a 60 wpc tube power amp which I choose because I like the sound, but it is definitely not enough power to make use of the full capabilities of the speakers. But most of the time it is entirely adequate. So, for me, of the amps you list, a P-P EL34 would be the minimum. In the other hand your preferences may be more along the lines of the refinement many choose in the smaller tube amps.

Congratulations on aquiring a pair of classic JBL large speakers.

David

artsound
04-20-2006, 11:29 PM
Many thanks David,

I think I should try some PSE like a GM70 or 211 or 845. But it is really hard to build by myself :banghead:

But L200A is the best sound I've ever heard before. Give me all feeling from Vivaldi to Louis Amstrongs, even folk songs.

Mr. Widget
04-20-2006, 11:50 PM
But L200A is the best sound I've ever heard before. Give me all feeling from Vivaldi to Louis Amstrongs, even folk songs.What amp are you currently using?

Some of us, myself included, really like the L200, but wish it had a little deeper bass, more extended highs, and even a little smoother midrange. That said, I am glad you have found a speaker you like so much. I remember hearing them for the first time and falling in love with them too.


Widget

markd51
04-21-2006, 04:26 AM
Widget, basically, it sounds like then, that the L-200 falls short in many areas? I wasn't aware of this.
What was the high frequency extension in Hz of the L-200's Horn Driver?

I recently made a comment to a person I know who owns a pair of KEF 104.2's that I believed the L-200 should be able to stomp his KEF's. He told me "only when pigs fly"!

While this particluar KEF he has may be able to go slightly deeper than the L-200 (With it's Kube), I'm wondering if in fact what he says is true, and that the KEF actually stomps the L-200 instead? (Sounds like he's a JBL Hater, and I'm a KEF hater, doesn't it? lol)

You mention not that smooth of a midrange? What, if anything can be done to alleviate this shortcoming as you say?

I've heard these KEF's, they are a nice speaker, and perhaps I'm comparing apples to oranges?
I gather that both basically cost around the same price new when manufactured. No doubt a matter of personal taste when it comes to speakers. Mark

remusr
04-21-2006, 09:45 AM
Artsound - I am not sure what the L200A is. I know the original L200 and the later L200B. The earlier L200 has 2 ports and a pleated paper (cloth?) surround LE15B 15" for punchier bass whereas the later L200B has 1 port and a foam surround 136A 15" giving flatter & deeper bass extension. Both look the same with the grilles on BTW.
Neither has a UHF unit but rely on the LE85/2307/2308 for mids and highs so they are pretty well done by 15kHz. Some owners add the N8000 XOver & 077 slot UHF to extend the highs from 8kHz or the N7000 & 075 bullet at 7 to simulate a L300 or a 4333 3-way. From my experience I wouldn't do that to a L200 unless you change to the L200B woofer configuration as I do not think the LE15B has the bass extension to balance the new highs. Both sound good as JBL made them, everyone has their personal taste and some are content with these. Others that like more extended or flatter sound go to the newer 4430/4435 designs (no UHF either) or the 3-way 4333/L300 and 4-way 4341/43/45/50/55's that all have UHF drivers.
Oh yes - amplifier(s) - I use big transistor ones but have heard others prefer tubes for "sweeter" sound. Don't know, 350wpc is not enough for mine so haven't tried a tube! Making it yourself would be satisfying.

Mr. Widget
04-21-2006, 10:33 AM
I recently made a comment to a person I know who owns a pair of KEF 104.2's that I believed the L-200 should be able to stomp his KEF's. He told me "only when pigs fly"!It's a matter of choice... I would guess that most people would agree with your friend. Probably not if you polled the members of this forum, but we are an unusual group. In terms of dynamics and raw power the KEF can't keep up, but for overall sound quality, I'd take the KEF.


Both sound good as JBL made them, everyone has their personal taste and some are content with these.I agree with your entire post, but focused on this line... my original comment wasn't to condemn the L200 for any short comings... I think all speakers have some, I wanted to find out what Artsound likes about them to help determine which amp will best show off that aspect of his speakers.


Widget

Zilch
04-21-2006, 10:53 AM
"Fixing" L200(A) can be a bag of snakes.

Once you change the woofer to, say, 2235H, for more extended bass, the 1200Hz crossover frequency is too high. This presumes LE15B is actually better up there, but I don't know that as fact.

The more you lower that frequency, the worse the midrange becomes, because the horn is too short for anything lower than the stock 1200 Hz, and the longer L300 horn won't fit in that cabinet without punching the driver out the back.

Augmenting the HF is less problematic. I like the constant directivity 2404H better than either the bullet or the slot suggested above:

http://www.jblpro.com/pages/pub/components/2404.pdf

Either N7000 (3105) or N8000 (3106) will work as crossover for that, though I'd opt for the lower frequency to retain maximum vertical dispersion from the MF horn/lens. 3 - 4 kHz might be a better choice, actually, for matching patterns. See Fig. 4b here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76021#post76021

Back on the bass, LE15B is not a favored woofer on these forums, but there's no denying it has "punch." Considering the other problems created by replacing it, I'd be looking to add a killer subwoofer to the system instead. You'll easily bury the KEF with that combination. :p

Adding the UHF driver will improve the system more than any specific amplifier selection, I would say.

There are other options for upgrading L200 as a two-way, of course.... ;)

<------

markd51
04-21-2006, 11:02 AM
Thank you Widget for your response, and I'm sorry to deviate this thread off topic somewhat, but had wished to discuss the L-200 some. I have an opportunity if I choose to buy a very nice pair of L-200A I believe at about $1400 for the pair, with all orignal drivers. Think this is a good deal? They do appear to have the cloth surround Bass Drivers, and not the later 136A with Foam Surround. Can anyone else comment about the L-200A's Driver-X-Over-Port consist?

Yes I have to concede if a speaker lacks in a certain frequency (low, or high) that it cannot be truly considered reference quality by today's standards.

I once owned a pair of Mirage M1si's, and they went back quickly to the dealer. (were they hot about this!) Didn't care for them at all.

I suppose a Sub could compliment the L-200 helping extract the lower frequencies.

I have heard the L-200's new back in the 70's, and the KEF's I mention. And I have heard the L-300 Summit.
Mark

Zilch
04-21-2006, 11:21 AM
$1400 for L200A's?

Not if I was sober, nope....

chad
04-21-2006, 11:36 AM
... In terms of dynamics and raw power the KEF can't keep up, but for overall sound quality, I'd take the KEF.....
Widget
I agree 110% :).

Widget, I say cheers for your taste in loudspeakers and for having the confidence to (drumroll ) give credit to another manufacturer.

Titanium Dome
04-21-2006, 11:44 AM
$1400 for L200A's?

Not if I was sober, nope....


Not even if you were drunk, I think. :no:

Mr. Widget
04-21-2006, 01:37 PM
"Fixing" L200(A) can be a bag of snakes.In general I am pretty caviler about what is on and off topic, but that is pretty far off topic.

Here we have a fellow who really likes his L200s and wants the best possible sound from them...

How do you think your favorite JBL/Urei amps work with a stock L200?


Widget

Zilch
04-21-2006, 02:09 PM
In general I am pretty caviler about what is on and off topic, but that is pretty far off topic.Well, others broadened it into a more generalized discussion of L200(A), and I do have some experience there. ;)

I believe artsound also specifically asked for same in the original post, as well:

"Or could you show me the way you passed when using L200A? Your feeling, your tips and tweaks...."



Here we have a fellow who really likes his L200s and wants the best possible sound from them....He'll want to consider upgrades, then, as many L200(A) owners ultimately do. I think my point is that it doesn't have to be done wholesale, but I wouldn't be looking to the amp as the critical path. Start with the HF, instead, is my advice.


How do you think your favorite JBL/Urei amps work with a stock L200?For maximum bass punch, they need an amp with more balls than the various and sundry weenie import receivers I have around here, for sure.

I'm not much into amp esoterica; that's outside where I believe investment most counts in all of this, though I do have some older high-end Sony ES for show.

Most everything runs on workhorse JBL 62xx here, as seen in the system pics I post. I keep that as a constant in system design and testing.

I consider stock L200 to be a rock 'n' roll speaker; same with my similarly configured 4325's. At 150 W/channel, 6260 has plenty of everything necessary to drive either of them authoritatively.

AND, at ~$150 of late, the price is right. Several other forum members like them, too, from what I've read; they don't come with much in the way of braggin' rights, is all.... :p

I await the Widget critical listening review of one on a full-range system, currently pending. Thus far, they are approved for driving subs, apparently.... :thmbsup:

edgewound
04-21-2006, 02:13 PM
If I may chime in on this one...the Ashley FET-1500/FTX-1500(~200w@8, 300@4 ohmsand FET-2000/FTX-2000(~300@8,550@4ohms) amps are very underrated for sound quality and are an exceptional value. Sure, they are pro-sound amps with a fan, but the build quality is exceptional and very reliable. Damping factor isn't huge on the bottom end at around 200, but overall very sweet sounding amps....as I'm sure JBL/UREI 6260 and 6290's are as well.

Mr. Widget
04-21-2006, 02:22 PM
I await the Widget critical listening review of one on a full-range system, currently pending. Thus far, they are approved for driving subs, apparently.... :thmbsup:I keep meaning to dust it off, plug it in and let you know what I think... wish I had a nice clean pair of stock L200s here to do the test on.:(


Widget

buoy7
04-25-2006, 05:20 AM
My experience with the L200 (L200A as you refer to it) is:

The LE85 (MF) diaphragms are sensitive to being clipped by not having enough power presented to the cross-over. I would advise against using any low powered tube amplifiers unless your listening levels are not very high

I find L200's work and sound much better (cleaner, punchier, etc.) with at least 200 - 300 watts per speaker (please insert fast blow 2.5 amp fuses in the speaker leads however). I also do agree that if low bass is desired you will want/need a sub woofer. :o:

I also think that this speaker is less painful to modify or improve if desired than its replicant L200B and it can certainly be made to sound better than stock L300's without spending L300 monies. :D

They are well constructed, look nice and the upward slant of the baffle helps to keep them usable at relatively short listening distances. :applaud:

artsound
06-29-2006, 09:03 PM
Hi all,

Yes, I wrote L200A to distinguish from L200B. This one use LE85 and LE15. They were born in tube generation, and L200B was upgrade for more power in transistor generantion. So, in my mind, the best way to do is tube amplifier.

But, rite now, my solution is bi-amps. I'm using JHF ClassA 20W for LE15 and tube amp VT45 2.5W for LE85. Its so PUNK :p .

I have some chance to listen to a system using some extra LF and HF, including 2245 and 077 or 075, with 375 for low-midrange and L175 for high and for 60Hz-300Hz, LE15A be used. They gave me an earthquake.

But they got one problem. It's very hard to operate active-Xover. He's using some pro active-xover (Beringher), but it's not enough for me. Only one I love is Accuphase active-xover ($10K:( ). B'cuz, I built a tube active-xover and I know what the sound is. But I just only can control two amp, for more, It's out of my control.:banghead: In Japan, some audiophile can control seven amps, It's so giant:blink:

With me, rite now, JBL - Altec Lansing is the best sound. But the most horrible when use JBL is power and place. I mean power of amp and place of listening room. Power could be solved, but place!!!! I'm livin' in a city with price of place is only cheaper than Tokyo.:banghead: (Some private words, MOD could kill them if it's spam, thanks).

Once again, thank you all, JBL LOVERS!!!!

Zilch
06-29-2006, 09:37 PM
Yes, I wrote L200A to distinguish from L200B. This one use LE85 and LE15. They were born in tube generation, and L200B was upgrade for more power in transistor generantion. So, in my mind, the best way to do is tube amplifier.LE15B, actually.

The rest, yer makin' up, I think.... :p

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5964&postcount=2

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=12227&postcount=14

JBLRaiser
09-24-2006, 06:25 AM
The bass(LF) uses the most wattage. Therefore, 150 or more watts per channel SS will drive them to their capacity. The horns(HF) require very little wattage( a couple(2) of watts will do) and is often harsh the SS. A nice little el 84, 2A3,300B will smooth out the highs and make listening for extending periods less fatiguing. This with a nice Ashley 2001 active crossover at the 1200hz point will greatly improve your listening pleasure IMHO. All slings and arrows are welcome.

'ROCK ON'

toddalin
09-24-2006, 11:52 AM
Thank you Widget for your response, and I'm sorry to deviate this thread off topic somewhat, but had wished to discuss the L-200 some. I have an opportunity if I choose to buy a very nice pair of L-200A I believe at about $1400 for the pair, with all orignal drivers. Think this is a good deal? They do appear to have the cloth surround Bass Drivers, and not the later 136A with Foam Surround. Can anyone else comment about the L-200A's Driver-X-Over-Port consist?

Yes I have to concede if a speaker lacks in a certain frequency (low, or high) that it cannot be truly considered reference quality by today's standards.

I once owned a pair of Mirage M1si's, and they went back quickly to the dealer. (were they hot about this!) Didn't care for them at all.

I suppose a Sub could compliment the L-200 helping extract the lower frequencies.

I have heard the L-200's new back in the 70's, and the KEF's I mention. And I have heard the L-300 Summit.
Mark

$1,400???

I'll let you have these for $1,200/pr.

They are original C50 Monitors with and S7 load (LE15A, LE85, HL91, LX-5). and have custom made mounting brackets and 6' foot stands. These came from a local production studio and have seen very little play.

Woofers were reconed by Orange County Speakers in Dec 1994.

Pick-up in Orange County CA. only.

Todd
http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/DSC_0002.jpg

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/DSC_0005.jpg

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/DSC_0007.jpg

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/DSC_0008.jpg

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/DSC_00091.jpg

Thom
09-24-2006, 06:45 PM
I'm pretty sure I'm alone on this, but I liked a D or K 140, so I guess it would be whatever is todays bass guitar speaker. That aluminum dome glued to the voice coil former really extends the woofers upper range and helps the mids greatly. One mans opinion.