Wow, OCS...

[QwertyAccess]

After picking up my first actual JBL Speakers i have actually purchased myself, and getting them repaired, i went to Orange County Speakers, i heard and was very sure they would not be ones to due anything wrong with my L100T's 2214H Drivers, but i was proven wrong, today. After receiving it today, i was greatly disappointed by the fact that the edge is..., ON TOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, *sigh*, well atleast i hope it does not alter the sound quality... any comments on OCS doing such things of late? It also appears to be a normal 12 Inch foam edge, and definately not the correct size for 2214H drivers. I feel betrayed especially after paying 90$ for such a crappy repair, i could have done better. Im very disappointed, i truly believed OCS to be professionals doing things the right way.

Also so to keep this one topic, does anyone happen to know what the tweeter is on the L100T? or atleast how i might be able to fix one of mine, using an electric meter on the positive and negative there appears to be no connection, any idea what causes this?

edit:
ah woops, think this should have been in technical help.

[toddalin]

OCS attaches the foams to the backs if you ask them to do so. If you don't know to ask, you are usually SOL. I recognize that they are a certified JBL repair facility and it's just not right, but that's the way they do it.:blink:

[Robh3606]

OCS attaches the foams to the backs if you ask them to do so. If you don't know to ask, you are usually SOL. I recognize that they are a certified JBL repair facility and it's just not right, but that's the way they do it.:blink:

Your kidding! You have to ask for them to do it right??? You should not have to ask.

Rob:blink:

[QwertyAccess]

hmm good game.., one of the woofer's cone's seem to have broken, *sigh* there goes all that money, sucks worse for me since im just a high school student with a little part time job, -_-. When i bought it i decided it to be the last speaker i'd purchase for a good long time...

[DavidF]

After picking up my first actual JBL Speakers i have actually purchased myself, and getting them repaired, i went to Orange County Speakers, i heard and was very sure they would not be ones to due anything wrong with my L100T's 2214H Drivers, but i was proven wrong, today. After receiving it today, i was greatly disappointed by the fact that the edge is..., ON TOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, *sigh*, well atleast i hope it does not alter the sound quality... any comments on OCS doing such things of late? ..."

Yup, did that to a pair of 10 inch 127H. Said they do that if there is too much damage on the rear to give a good surface.

Penance for not going full recone in the first place.

David f

[Zilch]

What does that mean "One of the woofers' cones seems to have 'broken'?"

Torn?

Dead?

[QwertyAccess]

not sure but i believe its the cone (of course im taking a guess), after a certain volume level one of the woofers will start to sound like a clipping kind of sound as if its going to break, almost like a plastic clipping sound, its not because of the receiver or audio signal, other one has no problem at even higher volumes. There is no visibile sign of damage though... Is my judgement correct?, i ruled out the possibility of it being incorrectly centered since it was done by OCS speakers..., pushing the cone in a bit i dont hear it making any sound, hmm.

[Zilch]

Take it back to OCS for diagnosis.

It'll be interesting to know what they say.... :(



Also so to keep this one topic, does anyone happen to know what the tweeter is on the L100T? or atleast how i might be able to fix one of mine, using an electric meter on the positive and negative there appears to be no connection, any idea what causes this?http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/L100t%20ts.pdf

035ti is blown. There's several forum members local to you that might help try to fix it. Diaphragm kit is available, but $110.

Start looking for a replacement on eBay, maybe....

[QwertyAccess]

i noticed that the L100T3, though only difference was the crossover supposedly, it has an 035TIA? is that alcino or something? Does my case though that i wrote above there sound like the cone snapped or something like that, im thinking about taking it back to OCS thursday, though im almost sure what they'll say, ohwell i can only blame myself, for being so dumb as to go through them, needless to say i might never be able to trust them anless i talk to them SPECIFICALLY what i want to be done, that was just bull what they pulled on me. i noticed that the foam they put ontop of the 2214H also is alot different, it pulls the actual cone up a bit, and its alot fatter, if i lay the 2214H face down the foam will touch the table *sigh*, but i imagine it didnt alter the sound atleast noticable to me, in any case, regarding the tweeter...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=9710424401
that oughta do right, wonder how much it'll end up as, but i notice that the connection terminals are located differently, on my tweeter there is one on the right and left side of the tweeter as far as can be, while these are close together?...

[edgewound]

not sure but i believe its the cone (of course im taking a guess), after a certain volume level one of the woofers will start to sound like a clipping kind of sound as if its going to break, almost like a plastic clipping sound, its not because of the receiver or audio signal, other one has no problem at even higher volumes. There is no visibile sign of damage though... Is my judgement correct?, i ruled out the possibility of it being incorrectly centered since it was done by OCS speakers..., pushing the cone in a bit i dont hear it making any sound, hmm.

A common problem with the 2214 is the spider cracking and tearing away at the cone apex where it joins the cone/spider/voice coil joint.

It's possible to put a new suspension on a driver that still has a good cone/coil. It's more labor but still less costly than a full recone.

It shouldn't have to be asked for to repair the speaker properly. I can't imagine having to ask any repair shop," Gee...would it be too much trouble to ask you fix this right? Thank you so much!":blink:

The difference between the 035ti and 035tia is the 035tia has alignment tabs on the diaphragm mounting plate that fits a relief machined into the magnet top plate, and the terminals are located on the same side, whereas the 035ti terminals are 180 degrees apart. They're not interchangeable without modifying the cabinets tweeter mounting hole.

[boputnam]

...pushing the cone in a bit i dont hear it making any sound, hmm.That's not a careful enough test.

Do you have a tone generator? Or, a CD with a frequency sweep? Take the woof out of the cabinet, place it on your bench face-up, and run something like one of these at a low voltage drive, less thas 3v. Also, try and get a good look for any "obvious" spider failure.

Overall, though, I think with the poor repair and age, you are needing a recone. But send them somewhere else...

[scott fitlin]

Like Bo just said, only real way is a full recone. OCS using a different foam edge, and glueing it to the front of the cone changes the position of the cone slightly, AND also changes the exact position the VC sits in the magnetic gap.

Where the VC sits in the gap is critical, even a mm or two makes the woofer work or not, incorrectly.

That plastic snapping sound your hearing sounds like your hitting the excursion limits of your woofer.

[JBL Dog]

Has anyone out there ever had a 2214H refoamed with the edge on the backside? It seems everyone I have ever seen has had the edge on top.

Just curious.

[edgewound]

Has anyone out there ever had a 2214H refoamed with the edge on the backside? It seems everyone I have ever seen has had the edge on top.

Just curious.

That is the only way I do it....short of a total recone with C8R2214.
Any way else is just wrong.

[Mr. Widget]

I must say that I was quite surprised by OCS's attitude toward Qwert... I too would have assumed that they would always do the "right thing". I have had issues with my local guy as well... I guess, you just have to stay on top of these guys. Not you Edge, of course, but you know what I mean.;)


Widget

[edgewound]

I must say that I was quite surprised by OCS's attitude toward Qwert... I too would have assumed that they would always do the "right thing". I have had issues with my local guy as well... I guess, you just have to stay on top of these guys. Not you Edge, of course, but you know what I mean.;)


Widget

I know exactly what you mean, Widget, or I wouldn't post on the forum at all.

[QwertyAccess]

i just had only wish OCS had told me they would put it on top, what they did was irreversible except when you recone it, the spider reaching its limit is probably partly due to the fact their foam places the cone higher then usual. For now i cant really afford a recone since it costs around 150$? :o, but i'll definately look into it in the future. It was not like the foam on the back would have been too hard to clean either, the foam was at the point where touching it, and it would disintergrate into dust just from the length of time its been stored...

Alas, i cannot trust OCS again, i had high hopes for them, but with what they just did definately is not right. I'm just a high school student so i try to make ever dollar count (minimum wage jobs ouch), i went through OCS and not doing it myself because i believed they would have done a MUCH MUCH better job, and thus making it last even longer. It got damaged after i brought it home it would seem... And not only that, it looks so freaken ugly with the edge on the top (ahhhhhh)

[Uncle Paul]

We've had many reports of shops that do unsatisfactory work. What are some that do the job right?

[JBLnsince1959]

Well, I've heard that a gentleman that goes by the name Edgewound is one of best.... You might want to consider him.....

also, there's a really good guy here in KC who does excellent work - John at Slice Inc.

[JBL Dog]

In the St. Louis area, Lloyd Faulkner at Spectrum Sound has been doing service for me for over 20 years.

Spectrum Sound
(314) 438-1791
[email protected]

audiobeer can verify his work.

[DavidF]

...It was not like the foam on the back would have been too hard to clean either, the foam was at the point where touching it, and it would disintergrate into dust just from the length of time its been stored...

Again, same with me. Seemed like lazyness or "hurry up and get 'em out" to me all the way. I paid the expense to send the woofers there since I thought they would know how to do it the right way. Thought wrong. Can't complain about the personal experience with the staff. Always wanting to help. Always those contradictions, always.


...And not only that, it looks so freaken ugly with the edge on the top (ahhhhhh) ...

That statement says to me that you belong here.

This will start you along the way in being appropriately wary in dealing with others on things JBL. There is plenty of vintage equipment out there (eBay or whatever) but not all of it is in the condition we want it to be or expect it to be. That was part of the learning process for me.

DavidF

[Titanium Dome]

We've had many reports of shops that do unsatisfactory work. What are some that do the job right?


Here's my recent documented success with Don Ramon's in LA. Tough part of town, but they've done me right on both 2235Hs and 2214H-1s.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103526&postcount=19

Good service and good prices. Yet, I too have a habit of insisting on correct mounting after reading so many horror stories here.

[Tom Loizeaux]

I suggest that you take the speakers back to Orange County and tell them the Lansing Heritage Forum members were horrified to learn that they incorrectly repaired your speakers. Tell them that the other members who have recommended Orange County Speaker Repair are sure they will put new foam on correctly for you.

Let us know what happens.

Tom

[QwertyAccess]

hmm not sure how far i can get with complaining (takes alot for me to get angry) i was more pissed with myself on the fact i could have done this or that and this would have never happened, but it is indeed true what OCS Speakers did was horribley wrong, if they call that professional repair, then hell i'd be a professional then, but for them to refoam it, i'd imagine a recone would have be necessary and i doubt they'll go that far. I'll try anyway though, but when i first saw the speakers after they were fixed at home, i was like oh my god..., it cant be.. FOAM ON TOP!?!!?! this is OCS right?!?!! they looked better with the old deteriorated foam to be frankly honest.

[Mr. Widget]

... it cant be.. FOAM ON TOP!?!!?! this is OCS right?!?!! they looked better with the old deteriorated foam to be frankly honest.Tell them that. If you need inspiration rent the movie Network and listen to the "Mad as hell" speech...

They should make it right...

Good Luck!


Widget

[QwertyAccess]

haha i'll try, (damn times like this i wish i was good at expressing anger) looking at the job itself however, looks like they just put glue all over the surround and pasted it ontop...

[oznob]

A couple of years ago I sent a fried pair of 044ti's to them to fix. Twice they shipped them back to me via USPS very poorly packed and damaged. Talked to a manager who said he would make it right. I finally got a pair that was packed correctly and worked great. They did pay my shipping costs but that was it. It took four months from the time I sent the first pair until the time I received a working pair. Needless to say, I have not used them since! I do know of others who have had no problems with them. I will say I have no problem with the work they did just the packing and shipping. I also feel they could have cut me a break on the price but, that's what I would have done and maybe I expect too much?:dont-know

[QwertyAccess]

let see.. if i call them up anyway, (pretty troublesome)

1) Ask to talk to manager
2) Start out questioning why the edge is on top (Do i seriously have to tell you to fix my woofer right when im paying 100$ just to simply get them re-edged..)
3) Are you Professionals? or amateurs that often paste the edge on top
4) According to your DIY instructions i've received for another re-edge i've done MYSELF, you should clean the old foam on the bottom of the cone off, however it is quote "easier to put it on top" for an amateur like me.
5) Representation diminished, quality destroyed, irreversible damage done to front of the cone
6) The edge you used altered the initial resting place of the cone due to the incorrect edge used which is not designed for (it looks like a freaken universal 12" foam!! pasted ontop in a minute)
7) As a member of audioheritage a forum community composed by people who are very serious about audio equipment, OCS has often been regarded as a "Professional" speaker repair company, it may be a bit pricey but your repairs are supposed to be professional and worth the cost, the foam on my cone was far from beyond repair, what you did was BEYOND repair, the driver had been in storage for nearly twenty years so the foam simply disintergrated, infact the old edge on the cone is still there untouched, i could clean bits of it off just rubbing it off with my fingers.

uhh, yeah.. (shh i dont like making arguements right...?)

:bs: Orange County Speakers :bs:

Thought these guys had a soul, i'd never put an edge on top just because the thought of it alone annoys me.

[JBLnsince1959]

QwertyAccess

While it's OK to get upset and mad about this, you don't have to be angry with them to discuss this. In fact, if you go in mad and really "give it to em" they're more likely to be defensive and a battle will ensue, so just state your case rationaly and don't back down...

Now, they will either fix it or they won't....

this a good thing in that it gives you a chance to learn to do something you are uncomfortable with. We're behind you....

[norealtalent]

For simplicity, give OCS the opportunity to make it right to your satisfaction. They are "professionals," at least they claim to be, and they know how to refoam a JBL properly. There are legal implications here. As paid "professionals," they have a responsibility to perform work in accordance with professional standards or be held liable for the damages. Any credit card company will back you up on this. You also have legal rights and government resources at your disposal. When I had problems with a licensed California business who sent me a pair of "Lancer" speakers instead of a pair of JBL Lancers as they described them, this is who helped me get a full refund and informed me of professional liabilities and consumer rights in the State of California.

Consumer/Environmental Protection Unit
Orange County District Attorney's Office
401 Civic Center Dr.
West Santana, CA 92701
714-347-8706
Fax: 714-568-1250

[toddalin]

Probably wouldn't stand up in a court of law. JBL does not condone refoaming their speakers. Therefore, any refoaming is inherently wrong.

While original foams came on the back, there are certainly many examples of quality speakers (JBL INCLUDED!) that foam to the front ($700 W15GTI attaches surround to teh front). As such, it could reasonably be argued either side could be acceptable if total JBL assemblies were not installed.

Not saying it's right, only that if pressed, a valid arguement could be made for their side also.


For simplicity, give OCS the opportunity to make it right to your satisfaction. They are "professionals," at least they claim to be, and they know how to refoam a JBL properly. There are legal implications here. As paid "professionals," they have a responsibility to perform work in accordance with professional standards or be held liable for the damages. Any credit card company will back you up on this. You also have legal rights and government resources at your disposal. When I had problems with a licensed California business who sent me a pair of "Lancer" speakers instead of a pair of JBL Lancers as they described them, this is who helped me get a full refund and informed me of professional liabilities and consumer rights in the State of California.

Consumer/Environmental Protection Unit
Orange County District Attorney's Office
401 Civic Center Dr.
West Santana, CA 92701
714-347-8706
Fax: 714-568-1250

[edgewound]

Probably wouldn't stand up in a court of law. JBL does not condone refoaming their speakers. Therefore, any refoaming is inherently wrong.

While original foams came on the back, there are certainly many examples of quality speakers (JBL INCLUDED!) that foam to the front ($700 W15GTI attaches surround to teh front). As such, it could reasonably be argued either side could be acceptable if total JBL assemblies were not installed.

Not saying it's right, only that if pressed, a valid arguement could be made for their side also.

OK....everyone take a deep breath...hold it.....let it out....aaahhhh...relax:) .

Tell OCS your speakers have a problem...and you are not satisfied with the repair. No need to yell...just stand your ground from a satisfaction standpoint. You assumed that they would do the repair to what a factory original speaker should look like, since they are JBL Authorized Service. Did they mention the spiders are fatigued and recommended a recone to do the job thoroughly? Or did you ok the economical approach to refoam, knowing that it might be a temporary fix? Did they point out all the details and costs?... or just say a refoam is x-amount of dollars and leave it at that and you said "ok"?

Todd...the newer JBL models were designed and aligned with the foam on the front so that's not really the issue. It comes down to repairing to as original as possible within cost options....that's what a true repair is. A rebuild as in "recone" is a different process with all new moving parts just like rebuilding an engine with an old block and all new moving parts.

At the end of the day...did all parties come away satisfied? If OCS wants to maintain customers in the internet age, they will do what they can to rectify the problem...and possibly do better, more diligent work in the future. If they don't...bad news travels faster than good...especially in today's world. Give them a chance to redeem themselves...OCS is run by a pretty nice family...I do business with them frequently. I buy some parts from them...and they sometimes buy from me.

I truly hope you both become satisfied and move on. If not...lick your wounds and find another service facility.

[JuniorJBL]

Thanks for the recone wisdom edge!!. This is one reason we all come here!!:D

[QwertyAccess]

Thanks for all your wisdom guys! honestly im not even mad really, though my dad encourages me that i should get angry with this. When i first saw the edges, the 2nd thing i thought, ohwell looks like i'll have to be like Titanium Dome and specifically question about how they reedge things if i ever do this again in the future. But i'll probably call them anyway since it is definately not right what they did, and as a consumer i should atleast have standards.

Goes to show however, you can never work based on assumption in this world.

Lesson Learned: Always question about the exact procedures in the future when getting anything repaired, for me

[GordonW]

I don't buy that, "if the back of the cone is too damaged" business. With the glues that fully-stocked reconers have available, you could glue a surround to the Rocky Mountains... the glues are THAT tacky. Ask any good reconer about Waldom AA-74 or WVS A-74, for one example...

It's one thing to "fudge" when the alternatives are HARD (ie, not being able to get "perfect" parts, etc)... but when it's this easy, it's just disappointing. I've never had a situation with a 2214H, where I had to do ANYTHING other than properly install the surround FROM THE BACK. The surrounds are easily avilable, to do the job properly. I know, I just re-ordered some less than a month ago...

Regards,
Gordon.