Packing Instructions

[Titanium Dome]

In another thread, there's a tale of woe due to poor packing.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=3297

How many times do we hear this? Too many, for certain.

Perhaps it's time for us to pool our collective expertise in getting a valuable, bulky, heavy item safely from A to B. If we had a downloadable set of instructions that members could email to their sellers that outlined and illustrated how to pack the speakers et al before shjipping, we might be able to
a) Provide ignorant sellers with step by step instructions they might actually follow.
b) Provide a standard supply list of easy to use materials for this endeavor.
c) Increase the likelihood that that members would receive gear in undamaged condition.
d) Decrease the number of times sellers and buyers have to hassle with each other.
e) Give us a standard by which to comment on particular sellers and their packing quality.

Maybe this sounds like too much work to put together, but the number of damaged or destroyed units is a lot, and we need to decide if we want to continue to see the decline in quality of used units due to unnecessary damage in shipping. Some of our experienced members might think, everyone ought to know how to do this, but, in fact, they don't.

This is especially for the guy who just inherited his uncle's pristine L166s and is looking to unload them for quick cash. "Ship them? Sure, I'll ship 'em, and I'll pack 'em real well, too." You're getting bubble wrap, peanuts, and a single cardboard box. Enjoy your salvaged parts.

What do you think?

[norealtalent]

I've had several pairs of LARGE monitors (4333's, 4315's) shipped to me from CA via Fedex. I gave VERY specific packing instructions as terms of sale. I paid the seller very well for their time as well as all materials. I instructed them EXACTLY what to purchase and how to use the materials, even what tape to use. The speakers arrived in perfect condition and the packing job was so good that I was able to use the same materials to ship them back out when they were sold. When it was all said and done, I paid between $120 and $150 packing alone on each pair. It was worth it to me but I don't think most people are willing to pay that. An instruction sheet would be great but you have to be willing to foot the bill. Materials aren't cheap and nobody wants to work for free...:yes:

[toddrr]

i think it would be an excellent idea to have some
packing basics. I am new to this venue, and i have
allready learned a bit about packing. Double boxes,
etc. However i would like access to such an important
information. After all when we purchase from folks,
we can educate them. THEN its a whole religion!

[johnaec]

I sold a set of L150's to a forum member last year - here is info on packing and shipping them that may also be useful for shipping other large speakers.

In this case, I was fortunate in finding large wardrobe boxes able to be purchased from a local rental place. They were of adequate height, width, and depth to allow for the use of styrofoam slabs around the speaker, and the cardboard was extra-heavy duty. Because the sculptured grilles with thin metal and particle-board frames would not allow for any weight bearing, they would be shipped in a separate box.

Before you start, be sure to take lots of accurate measurements, (cabinet size, inside box dimensions, *actual* foam thickness, etc.), and really think through just how all the pieces have to fit together, and how to cut out the foam so it goes together correctly. It's almost like a puzzle, and I found using graph-paper sketches really helped, for marking measurements down and calculating what worked out best.

Because of the fact that the speakers protuded in front of the baffle, I cut little 1/4" thick hardboard pieces to raise the overall level, with matching pieces of cardboard on that to match the level of the drivers. I taped these on the front in appropriate places so that the cover-board would have something secure to rest against without damaging the drivers, especially the protruding soft-dome 033 tweeter. I also placed a piece of hardboard on the bottom base for weight distribution:

[johnaec]

Next, I cut the front off the wardrobe box, and started lining the inside with 1.5" thick styrofoam, (home insulation variety), available from places like Home Depot in 4'x8' sheets and a very low price. Fortunately, I have a table saw which makes cutting it accurately easy. Also, a nice thing about this "insulation" type of styrofoam is that one side has a very thin sheet of plastic on it, (the blue side), that prevents scratching of the cabinets.

While the box was still upright, I "walked" the cabinet into it, then added the top foam and laid the box down.

[johnaec]

I also cut a piece of 1/4" hardboard to cover the front of the speakers. This sat perfectly flat on top of the speakers and the spacers I mentioned earlier. You can also see some 1/2" styrofoam sheet at the top - I sometimes had to use this in addition to the 1.5" stuff for the correct fit in this particular situation.

On top of this 1/4" hardboard, I then placed another sheet of 1.5" styrofoam, (blue plastic side "in" in this case, though it probably didn't matter here...).

[johnaec]

Next, I temporarily placed a sheet of wood on top of the styrofoam to use as a "guide" to trim the sides of the box flat to the top of the in-place styrofoam, (that's the blade of a utility knife sticking through the cardboard there - I just ran it along the piece of wood temporarily sitting on top of the styrofoam), resulting in a flat, even surface I could close the cardboard front of the box up against.

[johnaec]

To finish off, I taped the cardboard fronts, (cut to size), back on to the boxes. I started with clear shipping tape, then finished with heavy-duty strapping-tape, (until I ran out...). I also suggest clearly marking the size and weight on the boxes to give handlers, drivers, etc., a heads-up, so they won't try putting them where they won't fit.

The result was speakers that were fully protected from any damage, (short of actually dropping out of an airplane or driving a truck into them), accomplished both by the hardboard securely positioned in front of the drivers themselves and then a minimum of 1.5" styrofoam on all sides, enclosed in heavy-duty cardboard boxes.

I'll detail how I boxed up the grilles next.

[johnaec]

Because the grilles on the L150 are sculptured "3-D" jobs, with the cloth stretched over wood and metal frames, ('same as L65, etc.), they obviously wouldn't support any weight, and could have easily been damaged if any cabinet load fell on them if they were shipped attached to the cabinets. Unfortunately, I didn't have access to any way of supporting them how they likely came from the factory, with molded corners, etc.

What I ended up doing is using another of the wardrobe boxes. This allowed me to use the same basic method with the 1.5" styrofoam.

After getting measurements and cutting the foam, I put the grilles in large plastic bags, and laid the first one in, with the inside, (backside), of the grille going in first, laying on 1.5" styrofoam sheet. This left the "3-D" front side located "up".

[johnaec]

Next, I put a sheet of cardboard on top of the first grille, (remember, it's in a plastic bag - I use cut-up lawn bags), and then I put a sheet of 1/2" foam down, (not styrofoam - I wanted some "give" here so there'd be no hard contact between the two face-to-face grilles). I then put another sheet of cardboard in, and the second grille, (bagged), on top of this, with the sculptured side now facing in. Lastly, another sheet of 1.5" styrofam went in.

For this box, instead of trimming the sides down and mounting a separate piece of cardboard for the front, I just folded existing parts of the box over and trimmed to size, (folded-over pic still didn't have all the tape on).

[johnaec]

So here's the final shipment, ready to go. Packing materials, (3 wardrobe boxes, styrofoam sheets, foam, 1/4" hardboard, and lots of packing and strapping tape), totalled about $80, but I felt confident shipping them almost anywhere when done. FedEx Ground had no problem at all with them, and as I recall, it was something like $165 total, (not including packing materials), to send them from CA to KY, and they arrived just fine.

Hopefully this info will prove useful to others.

John

[johnaec]

How many hours do you have into obtaining materials and actual packing?Since that time was a learning experience, I probably had 4-6 hours into getting the materials and putting it all together. Future times would likely be cut in half, since I would already have a plan of action in place, not winging it by the seat of my pants... :p

John

[Steve Schell]

Titanium Dome, I am in favor of developing some simple outlines for correct packing of items of different types and weights. These could be forwarded to sellers on a routine basis. So many ebay sellers are clueless or indifferent about packing.

The other day an 8" 1930s radio speaker built by Lansing Mfg. Co. arrived here for a friend, and the cone was shattered into several pieces. The shipper had simply placed the driver into a Priority Mail box loosely with a bit of bubble wrap around it... grrrr.

[Wardsweb]

Here is my version: http://wardsweb.org/packandship/

[boputnam]

I'll start a separate thread...:no:

OK, I've merged the two related threads. If anyone knows of another, earlier thread on this, lemme know, and I'll do likewise.

Now, you guys that are merely rooting on, can you deal with deleting your posts to keep this more of a reference thread?

Or, if editing privilege time allowance has lapsed, are you OK if I do it?

[johnaec]

Bo - here's another about a 2245H I shipped - can you clean it and put it here?: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6724&highlight=2245

John

[boputnam]

Good one.

I'm working on it...

[sonofagun]

TO ALL IT MAY CONCERN:

I have a box manfr in my town who I have a good relationship with - I can get heavy wall cardboard in large sheets to make custom boxes with.

So, if anyone needs custom, HEAVY WALL, corrugated shipping boxes, I can provide them at reasonable cost + shipping. Here's example of one with a 45 lb amp inside. Between amp and outside 1/4" double wall box is 1/4" double wall cardboard + 1" styrfoam sheet.

[jim3860]

Any thoughts on whether to pack a large driver face up or face down? or does it matter. REGARDS jim3860

[4313B]

One arrived ok, the other not so ok.

[boputnam]

One arrived ok, the other not so ok.Bummer...

Looks like the surrounds are gone on both. Scheduled for recones...? ;)

[Robh3606]

Someone send them that way???

Rob:blink:

[4313B]

The cutout shown on the right driver failed on the left driver and all four bolts broke loose and gouged up the box. I think they'll be ok when I finish them and send them back on their way.

[boputnam]

...when I finish them and send them back on their way.Nice! :coolness:

[Chas]

They were both packed the same way. One must have been opened for inspection:banghead: .

[4313B]

That's exactly what I figured.

[John]

Did they come from Canada??? Damm that U.S. Customs:(

[Rolf]

One arrived ok, the other not so ok.

Do you remember how the diaphragm's for my 2420's arrived Giskard?

[4313B]

How could I possibly forget? That was utterly rediculous. :biting:

[Rolf]

How could I possibly forget? That was utterly rediculous. :biting:

Yes, but (1. The strange thing was that when I VERY CAREFULLY "polished" them out from behind to a nearly perfect dome, I could not hear anything wrong.:blink: And (2. As you know they got stolen, and I now have the 4343B's, it's not my problem anymore!:barf:

[4313B]

Didn't JBL suggest that you "polish" them out?

[Rolf]

Didn't JBL suggest that you "polish" them out?

No, that was my idea. I sent a mail to JBL about this, and they said "send them back, and we send you new ones". Later I spoke with a person at JBL Pro, suggesting this, and he said "you may try, but if it does not work send them back and we replace them".

As I believe it worked out fine, and I kept them, and they worked fine as long as I had them.

[4313B]

You wouldn't happen to still have those pictures would you? If so please post them. People would have to see them to believe them.

[Chas]

That's exactly what I figured.

Anti-terrorist measure?....Maybe they thought they were JBL land mines!:p

[4313B]

You know, I have no idea why people do what they do...:dont-know
All I do know is that giving any thought to it causes a migraine.

[Rolf]

You wouldn't happen to still have those pictures would you? If so please post them. People would have to see them to believe them.

I have tried to find them, no luck but I do not believe I have deleted them, so when (if) I find them, I post them.

[sonofagun]

Find a supplier of cardboard near you for sheet cardboard (there's corrugated box makers all over) OR get some large boxes from a local appliance dealer - they throw out many boxes and some with reusable packing materials including corner protectors.

Learn how to make boxes by looking at how boxes are made (take a couple apart) - its quite simple.

Now you can make your own boxes - I've done it for years with a tape measure, carton knife, long straight edge, philips screwdriver (for scoring cardboard), and some glue.

[Rudy Kleimann]

Almost all Liquor from the British Isles are packed in very strong double-layer cardboard boxes that, while maybe not large enough for the driver, would provide good material for cut-to-fit applications.

Styrofoam peanuts are a disaster! If the gear is not protected, the peanuts will either shift until the shipped item is against the outside of the box and subject to impact damage, or place pressure against fragile parts like the cone, dust cap, suspension, spider, vacuum tubes, etc.

As an electrician, I have had the "opportunity" to work inside UPS distribution centers and Airport baggage handling facilities. The conveyor and chute systems used to move packages put the parcels through pure hell!

BTW- Excellent packaging Wardsweb and Johnaec!

[DAVID POHLER]

Giskard.... Do you have any time to spare??? Would you care to recone another pair??

Dave

[hjames]

Giskard.... Do you have any time to spare??? Would you care to recone another pair??
Dave
I don't think the Giskard member is part of the forum any longer - I checked the userlist and found no such name.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/icons/icon9.gif :banghead:

[boputnam]

Check this out...

1. Outer box
2. Plenty of peanuts. View into packaging - each recone is in it's own box
3, 4, 5. Packaging in each recone box

[boputnam]

6. The recone support (these are very light, 127H's)
7. The prize...

Nice job, dood! :applaud:

[edgewound]

Thank you for the photo documentary, and the positive review, Bo.

I'm happy to have been of service to you.:)

[X_X]

With so much buying, selling, and shipping of prized drivers going on- what are the provisions outlining an Alnico motor? I have always mouted drivers onto plywood with a cardboard shim to protect the face. However, I have received drivers mouted face to face with no board in between. :biting:

Can it be especially harmful to package Alnico drivers in this manner?

Nate.



EDIT*** I wanted to add my frustration with sellers thinking zipties vs bolts are suitable for large woofers. Zipties are easily cut by the sharp edges of a brushed face. All it takes is one good jolt to render them useless. If they don't break, they can stretch and allow "play" to mar the driver. Please, use bolts. Putting a little nylon washer in there wouldn't hurt either- especially in the case of a nice factory paint job!

[kingjames]

I have always put styrofoam betwwen the woofers then wrapped in bubble wrap so tight that the speakers never slide and haven't had a complaint yet.

Last week I shipped those L56 woofer's to a forum member and this is the first time that I put nothing between the woofers because the foam was all gone with the cones in there loose. Thought it better not to cover the cones. I bubble wrapped real good and real tight. Forum member should be receiving these any day and I am sure I will find out if it was a job well done on this shipment.

I find most problems arise with tweeters like those 095ti's from those junk XPL140's where the dome extended above the frame. My solution was to buy two cheap plastic cereal bowls from the dollar store then wrap completely with bubble wrap. The wording on my feedback for this transaction was subperb packaging.

I do overkill on packing and only takes a few minutes longer. I would like my customers to receive their items without any damage because of my packing.Unfortunately not everyone packs items with the same care.:no:

[johnaec]

'Just though I'd add some more pics on how I packed up the pair of 4315A's I recently shipped to chilledspode up in Yellowstone, Northwest Territory, Canada. He mentioned they arrived fine.

I started with U-haul garment boxes, (under $15 each). These are nice because they use heavy double-walled cardboard. First thing I did was cut their fronts and tops off, since these will end up reattached at the final size. I also used liberal amounts of styrofoam sheets, available from any home improvement store at very low cost. They're sold in 4' x 8' sheets, in 1/2", 3/4", 1", 1-1/2", and 2" thickness. Note - the actual thickness is 1/8" less on each size, so you need to take this into account when sizing!! It's often necessary to add a couple different thicknesses to get the desired packing thickness, unless you really like trimming boxes to fit.

The first pic shows a 4315, (in a plastic lawn bag for protection), sitting in a box that has had the height and depth trimmed down to size. The styrofoam just rises to be level with the front of the grilles, (behind the plastic). You can see how I had to use thick pieces of foam plus thin pieces to add up to the correct thickness. Those pics taped to the front are for level control reference, both my normal home settings, plus flattest settings when tested outside with an RTA. I also sent pics of the actual RTA reponse via email.

The second pic shows a piece of 3/8" plywood, which is actually sitting on top of 1" foam that is sitting flush over the speaker fronts. The plywood prevents anything from punching through and getting to the drivers.

The 3rd pic shows how a 2" sheet of foam went over the plywood, bringing the whole box flush, with nothing left to do except securely tape the front on. In pics 2 and 3, you can also see the handles that were pre-punched in the U-haul boxes. I cut a little of the foam away inside these - hopefully, that made for easier handling during shipment.

The last pic shows the finished deal, including final safety-wraps of strapping tape, just in case. I also make a point of marking the weight in big letters on the boxes, just to give the drivers a heads up.

John

[John]

Yellowstone ??? You sure you did not mean Yellowknife ;)

[johnaec]

Yellowstone ??? You sure you did not mean Yellowknife ;)Oops - you're right! 'Sorry, chilledspode, (Mark).

John

[Soundwave]

Hi guys, I was wondering what would be the best way to package my Lansing field coil driver, as it weighs 12.5kg and has no way for me to bolt it down.

Im sure Steve should be able to help me, as he seems to have a few articles.

should i double box also?

[sonofagun]

Someone here cuts tops and bottoms off boxes to which I must ask why? This compromises the strength of the box. I would recommend just open the flaps/closures on one end or side of the box, then just pack/surround the item with all the styrfoam and cardboard needed, slide it into the box, and finally tape and/or glue the box closures shut. Makes for a more secure and professional looking package. Also if box will be opened and inspected, makes it easier to reclose/reseal box.

As I've posted previously, with cardboard and a little practice, you can make your own custom sized shipping cartons.

Recently sold, packed, and shipped a pair of Klipsch Cornwall speakers with no problems. Got packing boxes and materials FREE from local appliance shop. Resized/remade boxes to fit.

Largest I've shipped were a pair of parking lot striping machines - built plywood crates (boxes) with machines setting on pallets - fork liftable and over 600 lbs. each. Shipped & arrived no problems!

Next? :D

[invstbiker]

Someone here cuts tops and bottoms off boxes to which I must ask why? This compromises the strength of the box. I would recommend just open the flaps/closures on one end or side of the box, then just pack/surround the item with all the styrfoam and cardboard needed, slide it into the box, and finally tape and/or glue the box closures shut. Makes for a more secure and professional looking package. Also if box will be opened and inspected, makes it easier to reclose/reseal box.

As I've posted previously, with cardboard and a little practice, you can make your own custom sized shipping cartons.

Recently sold, packed, and shipped a pair of Klipsch Cornwall speakers with no problems. Got packing boxes and materials FREE from local appliance shop. Resized/remade boxes to fit.

Largest I've shipped were a pair of parking lot striping machines - built plywood crates (boxes) with machines setting on pallets - fork liftable and over 600 lbs. each. Shipped & arrived no problems!

Next? :D

OK, "Next?" big shipment "on boat coming" a pair of 4343's coming from Philly to AZ. Will post pictures before and after shortly, awaiting Yellow Freight. Please Standby

[invstbiker]

Attached some pictures of a professional Pack and Ship from Navis. What was nice is that Navis went out to the home where the 4343's we're, picked them up, packed them and got them on the truck. Navis is another alternative for long distant movement of JBL's See www.gonavis.com

[invstbiker]

Add'l pics

[invstbiker]

Ready to go