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Tom Loizeaux
10-26-2003, 06:19 PM
I've followed the discussions here about crossover capacitors for some time. When I rehabed my 4343s, I put in .01 bypass caps along side all the 4, 1.5 and 1 uf caps, and bypassed the 20uf with .22s and 13.5s with .1ufs, as well as put .47s along with the72uf and (as suggested by JBL) a 4uf (3.9 +.1) along side the 52uf.
When deciding on which brand and type of bypass caps to use, I listened to many opinions, and decided to go with the Daytons, since they were only going to be bypass caps. The larger caps were all original from JBL.
Since then I've heard some negative things about Daytons. I was going to use some Solens, but heard that they were "harsh". I know of the high-end caps (MusiCap, Axon, AudioCap, Infini Cap, Multicap, etc.) and have looked at many charts and types.
My question is, can we get a consensus on what caps provide good performance in passive crossovers without being "overly expensive"? If one cap cost $2.00 while another of the same value costs $20., can we find a reasonable compromise to upgrade our vintage JBL crossovers? I also have to consider physical size, as I'm going to stay with the stock JBL crossover boxes. Now I'm looking at Auricap, which seem very reasonably priced, but are these a significant upgrade over vintage stock caps? Which caps should I use to replace vintage caps, and which caps should I use to bypass with in JBL studio monitors?
Can I get some help here?
Thanks,

Tom

Earl K
10-26-2003, 07:16 PM
Hi Tom

Why not set up a poll to see which cap types have contributed the most bang for the buck - as far as being regarded as an upgrade over stock 43xx caps.


regards < Earl K :)

4313B
10-26-2003, 09:05 PM
"My question is, can we get a consensus on what caps provide good performance in passive crossovers without being "overly expensive"?"

I think that's kind of like asking for a consensus on what amplifier to use.

G.T. has stated on several occasions that one should use the best poly caps they can find and then bias them. That's a very expensive proposition. I like the very cheap Dayton metallized polypropylene bypassed with the expensive AudioCap polypropylene and foil. I am still waiting for my polystyrene and foil caps to show up so I can add them into the mix. The slightly more expensive Solen is simply too bright, too forward, and too two-dimensional for my tastes.

Did you happen to see the links I posted in another thread concerning capacitors?

What is wrong with your current stock JBL caps bypassed with Daytons?

"Since then I've heard some negative things about Daytons."

What was said?

"I was going to use some Solens, but heard that they were "harsh". "

Try them anyway, they might work fine with your other electronics.

Have you tried the AUDIOCAP PPT THETA .010uF-600V FILM/FOIL CAPACITOR (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=16124137&St=1778&St2=-66700545&St3=-33009407&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=16018&DID=7)? If you can't hear a night and day difference with these things then the rest of your system, or dare I say, your hearing, isn't up to the task.

Tom Loizeaux
10-27-2003, 06:56 AM
I'm not unhappy with the Dayton .01s in my 4343s, I'm just trying to decide if I can improve things! A certain amount of this "persuing audio perfection" has to do with the peace of mind that comes from knowing what you're listening to and that it is closing in on perfection. I know that my system isn't "the best", but I want to know that there isn't something small I could do to noticably improve things. Knowing I'm getting the most from my vintage JBLs, and possibly improving on the perfomance over the stock version, is satisfying.
Opening up my 4343s and pulling the crossovers out is a pain, so I want to know what I'm going to accomplish before I start. If I feel further upgrading caps will be worth it, I expect I will order some and install them.
Thanks for the suggestion of the AudioCap .01s, I may try them.

Tom

4313B
10-27-2003, 07:27 AM
"I'm not unhappy with the Dayton .01s in my 4343s, I'm just trying to decide if I can improve things! Opening up my 4343s and pulling the crossovers out is a pain, so I want to know what I'm going to accomplish before I start."

Yeah, pulling drivers and networks can be a pain. You might want to consider mounting the networks on the outside temporarily to give yourself easier access. I think knowing what you will accomplish will be pretty difficult without hearing it. I can sit here typing about how great a certain capacitor is until the cows come home but what does that have to do with you, your system, and your preferences. You might think the Solen sound is the greatest thing since sliced bread or you might find that an Auricap is just the ticket. My "ranting" about the AudioCaps are based on my particular environment and my personal perception. Someone else might think they suck. As for the people saying bad things about the Dayton 0.01's, maybe their electronics aren't "compatible" with the Daytons. Alot of people have posted what types of capacitors they like and I'm sure they've tried a bunch before making their decision. I see no easier solution to simply trying out a whole bunch of different capacitors and selecting the ones you prefer most.

When this topic first broke in the very first forum I stated that I thought people might simply want to get the stock JBL 0.01 uF polypropylene capacitors and the 0.005 uF polystyrene capacitors since they were "tried and true". They aren't "the best" but they are considerably better than just a plain old mylar.

warpig
06-07-2015, 10:26 PM
Hello All
Need to replace the surrounds on a pair of 2231H and 2121H. While I was at it was thinking about installing some bypass caps and saw this thread. The thread is quite old and I was wondering are these still the values recommended? Also while they are open will bypass the biamp switch and replace the binding post.
Any info on the caps is appreciated.
greg

warpig
06-09-2015, 02:48 PM
Anyone have any thoughts on this? At this time building charged coupled is not in the budget. I would not even be doing any of this if I did not have to replace the surrounds. In the future I would like to upgrade the networks or even build new ones. I do have 8 Audiocap PPT Theta .01uF and may just put them on the caps for the 2420 and 2405.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
greg

BMWCCA
06-10-2015, 05:41 PM
The thread is quite old and I was wondering are these still the values recommended? Also while they are open will bypass the biamp switch and replace the binding post.

Sadly, the OP in the thread has shuffled off this mortal coil. :cheers:

grumpy
06-10-2015, 07:00 PM
I believe the thought at the time was that bypassing with a high quality cap was worthwhile, something JBL did with L150a/112/96 networks (and easy to listen, compare, and undo), while a full blown CC network was a further level of improvement.

warpig
06-11-2015, 10:39 AM
Thanks for the replies. Yes I did see Mr. Tom passed on and by no means do I mean any disrespect. I would hope Mr. Tom would want the things that he experienced and learned to continue. If anyone takes it as disrespect I apologize.

Grumpy thanks you always seem to answer my threads. At this time I have neither the time or the funds to build a charge coupled network. While I had the speakers out I did want to freshen them up a little. I have some .01 caps already and will remove the rotary switch along with some better binding post. Before purchasing the other caps which would be a small investment I was wondering if an individual was to do the bypass are these still the values recommended? Or is it just a waste of time?

One other thing does anyone have a link to the schematic for the 4343B charged coupled network. I may have missed it looking at all of the posts. I see one http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?1388-4343-crossover-modifications/page19 but if you look further there is a correction that was not updated. If you do not read the whole thread then you would miss the correction. It can get confusing. Then on Mr. Ian's thread I never did see a schematic for the network that was built.

Thanks All
greg

4313B
06-11-2015, 10:48 AM
While I had the speakers out I did want to freshen them up a little. I have some .01 caps already and will remove the rotary switch along with some better binding post. Before purchasing the other caps which would be a small investment I was wondering if an individual was to do the bypass are these still the values recommended? Or is it just a waste of time?It is not a waste of time to use the bypass capacitors.

warpig
06-21-2015, 02:28 AM
Just wanted to say thanks for the replies and give an update. I did the refoam and replaced the LF binding post along with bypassing the rotary switch. The .22 caps were not in stock at the time and the more I read the more it became apparent that I really need to rebuild the networks. So for the time being I left the network alone. Project for the future and at that time I will have further questions.

Again Thanks
greg

Ian Mackenzie
06-22-2015, 04:31 AM
Hi Greg,

If you have the time to search the forums I did some wok on upgrades for the 4343 / 4344 about 10 years ago.

At the time we looked at bypass caps and what not for existing JBL stock network.

I did quite a bit of auditioning with the following findings (as I recall).

The stock JBL networks used Mylar capacitors and there applicable used 0.01 polypropolyn bypass.

The non bypassed networks were subjectively opaque in terms of clarity and definition.

Bypassed networks are a cost effective improvement.

Dayton make great value for money products.

If you ar not planning to build new networks I would stick with Dayton.

The next step is to pull out the existing capacitors and make other changes including bypass of the bI amp switch which adds noticeable loss of resolution.

After looking at a number of option I found the Clarity Capacitors SA bypassed with Auricap 0.01 was 85% the quality of the most expensive capacitors like Mundorf Gold and oil that I also built and auditioned.

A fully charged coupled Solen network comes out the same financially.

The Solen option voices well with the JBL sound and adds a bit of spark to these older drivers that lack the refinement of the current soa JBL drivers.

I would not recommend spending more funds on fancy capacitors without looking at the greater improvements that can be found with driver enhancements like the 2122 mid cone or the 2123, and the dusted Tii diaphragm compression driver.

If you upgrade the drivers then more money on the crossovers is worthwhile.

I hope this helps.

Ian

warpig
06-23-2015, 06:53 PM
Mr. Ian thanks for the reply. I did do the surrounds, bypass rotary switch and replaced the binding post all for single amp mode. At the time I did not want to pull the crossovers. I did not have the complete parts and at this time to many things going on to give them the time they need. I know its a band aid but to me they still sound good.

I appreciate the info because it helps me decide what I will do. I have read so many of these threads my head is spinning. A lot of great info here and it is constantly changing.

I know that charged coupling seems to be the preferred method. More than likely for myself I will just rebuild a stock 3143. Really do not want an external network and would like the network inside the box itself.

Anyway that's the short of it. When I am ready I am sure I will have more questions.

Again appreciate the food for thought.

Have Fun
greg